From Idea to Outdoor Brand: Abe Shehadeh/BlackStrap Industries

Speaker 1: 0:32

All right, now count backwards. All right. What is this for? Can you please just do it. Ten, nine, eight, seven, six, five, four, three, two, one.

Speaker 1: 0:47

Thank you, I love you, bye. It's been said that great ideas may not necessarily be the result of us bringing something into existence as much as they are the result of us being in tune with an idea when it presents itself, being able to transmute it and being able to share it. On episode 43 of Bend Magazine's the Circling Podcast, I spend some time with Abe Shahadi, founder and CEO of Blackstrap Industries. The idea that has evolved into Blackstrap presented itself to Abe during a winter storm cycle on the chairlifts of Mount Bachelor back in 2008. In an effort to provide a more enjoyable experience for skiers and snowboarders, abe began designing and manufacturing a more comfortable and more functional winter face mask. Fifteen years later, the same hard work and hustle mentality that helped Abe get Blackstrap off the ground has solidified Blackstrap as a brand leader in the outdoor industry. Now, with over 40 employees and plans to build a new Blackstrap headquarters here in Bend, abe continues to inspire his team while executing the brand mission to improve everyone's experience in the mountains. Yo, abe. It's been said that there are leaders and those who lead Leaders hold positions of power. Those who lead inspire. I know I'm not alone when I say thanks for the inspiration man, I look forward to getting out there with you.

Speaker 1: 2:41

The Circling Podcast is proud to be associated with NOTA. Since adding visual show notes on NOTA, feedback from listeners has been extremely positive. Visit NOTA at notafm and experience how NOTA takes you beyond the episode and makes podcasts even better with visual show notes. The Circling Podcast can now be found on Patreon. Visit our page and learn how a percentage of your financial support will support local nonprofits and continued growth of local community podcasting. Become a member and learn about this unique opportunity at patreoncom. Forward slash the Circling Podcast or see the link in the show notes. Lastly, remember to stay tuned after the show credits to hear from Abe as he contributes to our Blank Canvas Community Art Project that explores the magic found in art embedded with meaning. Also at the end of the episode, stay engaged, as those who are participating in the success of Blackstrap call in with some community sound bites. We hear from Randy Torquham, vice President of Brand and Marketing at Blackstrap, as well as Powder House owner, shanda McGee. And some final thoughts from Abe's first employee, jim Sanko.

Speaker 4: 4:02

It was funny. You told me about this podcast and then I started listening to all of them, which is rad. I mean, it's cool. I really think the community here needs something like this.

Speaker 1: 4:12

Yeah, I mean, one of my favorite things about doing this has been the diverse people that have sat down at these mics. This show has kind of defined itself and turning into. It's like a storytelling show of central Oregon culture by the people that are doing cool stuff here, whether it's brand and business founders or owners or nonprofit kind of leaders or just individuals with their previous. It's really fun. I appreciate you being here. I also. I don't think I say this enough, but I very much appreciate all the people that have participated in this and then also listened to it, because it's growing, it's getting some traction Now that we've partnered with the magazine. It's been fun having a studio and a place to come and just it's fun starting a project and letting it define itself.

Speaker 4: 5:03

I think it's cool. It's like a time capsule too, right? Absolutely. You're getting to record people who are in Bend now or were in Bend, or people that are moving to Bend. You capture the community in a microcosm of how it's changing too, which is super rad. You can people can go back and listen to the trials and tribulations of all the people that are moving here. The difference is how that has affected them and the community moving on too, which is super rad.

Speaker 1: 5:32

You just described part of the reason why I started. It was as a resource for either people that have been here, like you and I, for a while, or people who have moved here last year. Going back through the catalog of episodes, there's different people that fill in the gaps from all that timeline, from back in the 60s all the way to present. That's super fun. It has turned into a little bit of a central Oregon cultural time capsule that people can tap into. I like that. I like that a lot.

Speaker 4: 6:06

It's good to capture that. I moved here primarily because of the community. Then I have this saying I say about everybody If you're moving to Bend, leave all the bad stuff behind and bring all the good stuff with you, so we can build this thing up. Totally. It's changing. There's a lot of things good, some things bad, obviously, but as long as everybody has the mentality that we're all on a straight path, bringing things better, it'll be fine.

Speaker 1: 6:35

Absolutely, man. I couldn't agree more. Where should we begin our conversation?

Speaker 4: 6:42

Wherever you want to Funny thing, even at the office. I tell everybody I'm in open books. Hit me with whatever you got.

Speaker 1: 6:54

I guess I go by this formula, which is find common ground, get people on board and go on a journey. It's November, middle of November, ski season's coming up. I'm 44 years old and this weekend I went shopping for snowboard boots with my 14-year-old daughter and I realized that at 44, I still get as much enjoyment going into brick and mortar snowboard shops as I did when I was her age, in terms of just putting your hands on the new product, seeing the new colorways, seeing new graphics. I kind of feel bad for the younger generation that they don't have to put up with the anticipation that we used to, which was whoa, the new stuff would come out and it wasn't instant gratification, be it films or magazines, all that stuff, everything now is just so instant.

Speaker 4: 7:49

It's funny you say that I had a conversation actually with Jim the other day and I said I have a prediction that the next generation, even the generation now of young littles and stuff, I think they're going to come back to specialty snowboard. You're never going to get an experience like you'd get walking into a snowboard shop. You go to Powder House and you get the smiles and you get the assistance and you get the boot fitting and you get the whole package. Then you get the experience of walking out with something in your hand. I have this gut feeling like it's going to come back. Even me, I crave that now. I'm sick of seeing everything online and me and my wife were talking the other day and we were actually talking about how can we create those experiences that we had as children for our kids now. Snowboard's one of those things too. You walk into a snowboard shop. That's been around 50, 60, 80 years and they just hold on to that the essence of what it is.

Speaker 1: 8:47

Which is becoming less and less common, and preparing for this, I was doing the research of some of the first brick and mortar stores you were in, and only a handful of those places are around anymore. That's tough.

Speaker 4: 9:03

It's become survival of the fittest, which is a sad thing to say. But there's a few shops out there that are doing it well. They're doing it right. I think they'll stand the test of time. They found their recipe and the recipe is just being all about the customer and, of course, selling rad stuff.

Speaker 1: 9:23

It's funny how there's some tried and true fundamentals of business that, when they're followed, can take you quite a long ways if you stick to them.

Speaker 4: 9:34

I wish I knew those.

Speaker 1: 9:36

Yeah, I mean I think most people do. That's why nothing good happens quick. Right, that's true. Yeah, I'm a big proponent and believer in the long game. Yes, I don't think anything good happens quick.

Speaker 4: 9:50

And that ties into Blackstrap. That was something I knew from the very start. We didn't want to be a fast moving brand. Specialty was our focus and specialty is where I made sure to concentrate on. I still say to this day specialty is the backbone of the industry, no matter what happens in the global economy and the Amazons and all the other things of the world. If you can protect your position and specialty and then they're stoked on you as a brand, you'll be fine.

Speaker 1: 10:18

Yeah, that's phenomenal. When I was thinking about my first experience with Blackstrap, it was around a time in my life where I was just getting some freedom back to get up to the mountain. So back I moved here and I've shared the story before, but I don't know if you know it. I moved here in the late 90s, snowboarded a ton, ended up going to school over in Portland, moved away in 2005, moved back in 2009, but was in a completely different. It was a different experience and been it was. You know, pre that trip to Portland I was single and snowboarding every day and living this very different life. Come back with two little kids and a real job and, yeah, getting up to the mountain as much as possible was low on the priority list, not to mention expensive. So by the time I kind of got back there, maybe 2012-ish, I realized man, everybody has a new item in their kit and it's a Blackstrap, because when I you know, in 2000, what? 2004-2005, no one was really wearing face masks.

Speaker 1: 11:26

And, like with most things with this podcast, I find myself thinking more and more about the subject matter over the week and this is the conclusion I've come to, and correct me if I'm wrong or you have a different opinion, but I look back in the late 90s and early 2000s and snowboarding, even though it had been around for 20 years, was still fairly young, right, and at that time, pre-social media, a lot of the kind of cultural influence of snowboarding was kind of this top down from, like you know, brands and writers, especially in that era, right, not that many people were wearing face masks and I started out.

Speaker 1: 12:03

Well, who was the first kind of influential writer that started riding regularly with a face mask in around 2005? Sean White, right, Like his bandana in the Olympics. I remember at the time going, and then I listened to your stories about, you know, coming up with a better solution to the problem of discomfort and inclement weather than a bandana, because that was kind of the standard at the time. And there you have it, man you know. So it was a good problem and good timing, right, or a good solution to a problem and good timing.

Speaker 4: 12:37

I guess this is a pretty good segue where I can like tell you maybe the aha moment and kind of how it started.

Speaker 4: 12:45

So, you know, finishing up school, you know, and I moved from, I moved to Ben, kind of with the same thought as you, right, like I wanted to come to a place. You know, I grew up in LA, grew up in Huntington Beach, garden Grove area. You know, a very fast pace and my family wasn't meant to be in LA. We were a very outdoorsy family, you know. We were camping and hiking and riding bikes and doing all these things. I mean everything that not the normal California would do. And I knew, like when I was finishing up college, I just like wanted to leave that place. I wanted to go somewhere where I could slow it down a little bit. You know, go snowboarding, you know, 50 plus days a year and like, really do the things that I wanted to do. And so and Ben was on my list I had come up here once with family friends when I was a little kid and all I remembered about this place was it was the place that everybody waved at you, which I thought was weird, you know, coming from California and everybody's waving at me.

Speaker 4: 13:35

You know, and I'll never forget, I mean, I looked at my dad one day and my mom and I just said, you know I'm leaving, you know, and so packed up the bags, came up here and, you know, set on a quest to be a snowboard bum. You know, yeah, what.

Speaker 1: 13:53

Before we jump too far into the story arc of what's Blackstrap, I, like I've been aware of you know, to finish my thought earlier, my experience with Blackstrap was clearly over the last decade you're the presence, both locally, regionally and now globally, has grown and it's been amazing. I never knew the story about you. I never knew the story about how you were founded, how you bootstrap this. You've never taken on an investor. It's privately owned and operated. Your products are American made and you know a lot of this. I learned at that Bend Outdoor Works conference where I met you and you know, to succeed in one of those areas, let alone all of them, is you know you're an outlier. So it was. I was incredibly stoked to like get the opportunity to sit down with you. Not to mention you now have 30 plus employees, right, you just is this year 15 that you've been in business.

Speaker 5: 14:50

Yep.

Speaker 1: 14:51

Yeah, I mean, that's phenomenal, dude. So you know, that's where we are now right, and I think it's fun to tell stories. And you know, present day is, you know, you have a very successful, independently owned and operated US made outdoor industry brand that's expanding into different sectors, is what it appears to be Just not snow anymore and that's that's phenomenal. So, to kind of start the story, I got in touch with Jim.

Speaker 3: 15:21

Nope.

Speaker 1: 15:21

Sanko right, is it? Sanko? Yep, yeah, I have a couple of audio clips that are fun to kind of tell these stories with. So here's your buddy Jim.

Speaker 5: 15:32

We hear that a lot too. People are like how, like, why, where and how do all these things get to all these places? Like, you must have funding, you must not be privately owned, you must have all these things. And it's literally not like, from beginning to the end, right, like I started working for Abe whatever 13 years ago in his back room, making whatever money he wanted to pay me I don't even remember, it doesn't matter right?

Speaker 5: 15:57

And all the way to now where, like we have an executive team, we have probably in-house 30 plus people that work at that facility, in-bed, in-house, full-time, you know like, and that's everyone from Abe down to our packaging and our merch teams. And like I can assure you of one thing like I helped to get there, but I didn't do that shit. I think Abe made sure that, like, those people were taken care of and have a place to come work and do those like important core things that, again, like, when you get to that level of scaling a business, regardless of what you're making, do like making face masks or making paper plates, like whatever it is at a certain point, like there's got to be those people that are like the ones that make sure that shit happens, you know.

Speaker 4: 17:21

It's. You know it's hard for me not to listen to stuff like that and feel a little emotion, you know.

Speaker 1: 17:27

You should but you know it's Get closer to that, mike.

Speaker 4: 17:30

Yeah, it's, you know it's. Yeah, hit the heart hard, you know, to feel appreciated is, you know, a nice thing for sure, yeah man, that's.

Speaker 1: 17:41

I very much kind of designed these and I've learned over the years literally at this point now that I've been doing this that like bringing in these sound clips of other people that contribute to the story that we're sitting here talking about is a fun way to hear the story. Yeah, and I mean that's it's the name of the podcast is a circling podcast. It's about bringing other people into the story than just you and me sitting here, totally. So, yeah, I mean I listened to that, that sound bite from Jim and and I was telling you this before we started recording. It's like and this is a theme with you is is this, this desire not only to be a good leader but also to improve your leadership quality? Right, because I'm becoming a believer that it's hard to teach leadership, but you can learn leadership.

Speaker 1: 18:31

I think those are two very different things, 100%. So you know, I mean, when I asked that, certain you that survey about a recent book. You know I'm a big Simon Sinek fan. Yeah, I think he. I think he is an incredible communicator in terms of expressing tried and true kind of timeless, wise, applicable, you know approach to stuff. You referenced one of his very famous books what is it Leaders Eat Last, yeah, yeah. So I mean describe your leadership style to people, or the current version of it Current version.

Speaker 4: 19:11

I was going to say yeah.

Speaker 1: 19:11

my version has changed over the years, as it should, right, yeah.

Speaker 4: 19:15

The current version is very much me trying to learn to listen more right and to be and to understand internally that not everybody's built like me right or built the same way, right, and with that then digesting how they communicate, how they feel successful, how I can empower them and like really like absorbing that like a sponge and feeling how I can like make them the best they can be. You know I'm not perfect at it, you know sometimes I still, you know, might come across too intense, you know just, I'm just a passionate guy, you know, and so I think you know, right now my leadership style is very much just getting in tune with every person that I work with and making sure that I give them the best version of me.

Speaker 1: 19:59

Do you? I read this book by this guy, don Phillips, once and he has this managing by walking or managing by wandering around Like he found incredible insight to just kind of bopping around his brand throughout the day and checking in on people.

Speaker 4: 20:15

Wow, that's funny that you say that. That's what I'm notorious for, so I definitely want to get the full name of that book so I can read it, but yeah that's what.

Speaker 4: 20:22

I'm notorious for I have a tendency to, you know, internally I don't know if it's like part of me not wanting to let go of all the little pieces, but yeah, I bop around all day long. You know I'm going, you know, into the marketing department and creative and you know I always want to make sure that I know a little bit about a lot of things so that I can be a good sounding board for a lot of people. You know, and not so much just because I obviously there's a heritage with the brand and many years of trials and tribulations, but more so just you know, so I can be, you know, a lever for them to pull if they need it.

Speaker 1: 20:55

Yeah, yeah, man, I get continuing on that Simon Sinek theme. Have you read his, you know? Start With why.

Speaker 4: 21:05

No, it's on my list though.

Speaker 1: 21:07

Yeah, so he has. One of my mentors encouraged that. I read that and very much initially started, encouraged me to think about building anything, whether it's a brand or a relationship or anything you know. You start with the why. You know and then you build the how and the what, but the idea being people don't buy what you do. They buy why you do it Totally Right and why for you changed over the years.

Speaker 4: 21:34

Yeah, I mean the why has changed. For me, I would say, ultimately, the why has stayed the same to our customers and I always make sure that they know our why, right, but internally, my why has definitely changed over the years. You know, originally, when I started the company, was the why was to just put better product out there and put more product out there and make sure I solve the problems for everybody. But you know, after hiring Jim and then you know employee number five and then employee number 10, my why started to change. You know, the reason I come to work now every day is watching other employees wise, like why they come and then how can I inspire them to have their own? Wise? I get really fulfilled by that. You know.

Speaker 4: 22:15

Watching, you know people buy their houses or have children or get married. All internally right, I call it the be. It's like a beehive effect. I, you know I'm going there and it's buzzing and that's the things that bring me to work every day now, you know. So that's my why. My why is how can we continue to build this like rad company while making all of our employees feel fulfilled, successful and safe? You know, and that's pretty much where my why is at right now, yeah, the safety aspect is a big part of that.

Speaker 1: 22:43

Yeah, like big part of that.

Speaker 4: 22:45

Yeah, I heard I don't remember who said it, but there was another owner from another organization in town and I remember an employee had applied for Blackstrap and he had said that he heard that you know, aid built a good business and Blackstrap safe, and that really hit home for me to know that people feel that way under this roof. And you know, I tell people that every day. You know, sometimes I come across a bit passionate or eccentric in many ways, but it's really just because I'm passionate about what we're doing and I care about all those people as much as I care about my own family and you know, and their success is important to me.

Speaker 1: 23:20

Yeah, and it's good to be passionate. I mean that's great. Things are built on passionate people, you know. I mean that really it's the only way great things are built, in my opinion.

Speaker 4: 23:32

Yeah, I mean, you know, hopefully my passion can be infectious. You know, I can tell you honestly, in the way we sell the product, people always joke and says oh, abe's coming in. You know, he's selling the Blackstrap face mask Ferraris over here. So you know, I've always been very passionate about the product we make, you know, and now I'm also just passionate about the people I work with and what we're building, which is super rad, and doing it in a community, you know, and doing it here, you know, further, putting our roots in the ground, which is awesome.

Speaker 1: 24:00

Absolutely. Hmm. So you went to school at I'm sorry, I got something in my eye, you see Riverside.

Speaker 4: 24:11

Yeah, I was slated to do. You know what your parents want you to do, path you know. So I went to school to be an engineer.

Speaker 1: 24:17

Yeah, I out of curiosity, because I'm always fascinated about what people study and what people end up doing for a living, and the older I get, the more interesting it becomes. Why engineering? I guess you kind of just answered it mom and dad.

Speaker 4: 24:32

Well, I can tell you, I mean, I'll give you a little bit of a backstory on me, you know. So you know my dad was always, you know, entrepreneurial in his own ways. Okay, and well, in the sense, you know he has a BS in journalism and he's a smart guy, and so for him, you know, in his writing and things like that, you know he's working for papers and podcasts at the time.

Speaker 4: 24:54

I know I know, yeah, and so you know he started his own newspaper at one point, you know, on the college campus. And so, like, when I say he was an entrepreneur, in his own way he took what he was really good at, but then he wanted to do it for himself, right. And so from a young age, I learned a lot of those things you know, like how to talk to people, and he always threw me in positions where, like, I had to learn to, you know, earn my own way and things like that. And so the one thing I was really always good at was math, and it just came easy to me. And so, you know, engineering was just the first one on the list.

Speaker 4: 25:28

I was good at it, it was easy, but deep down it just I don't know if it would have fulfilled me the same way. It's not what I was meant to do, and there was so many things pulling at me to like not let me go that route. You know, putting myself through college, you know I started my own eBay business. You know where I was buying things from local shops and reselling it on eBay to fund my college, you know. And so there's a million things in my way to say like you're never gonna love this, you're never gonna love being in a cubicle and so, and moving to Bend was kind of the catalyst for like, yeah, I made the right move, this is not what I meant to do.

Speaker 1: 26:07

Did you move her right after you graduated?

Speaker 4: 26:10

I funny story. Actually I'm five credits away from graduating and I was one of those kids that thought, oh, it's all good, I'll just come to Oregon and make it up, and then come to find out that a lot of my credits didn't transfer. So that was a real pivotal moment for me. It was like, okay, go back to school for six months, make those up. And it was kind of right around the time where I was, you know, hustling and snowboarding and doing all those things, and so I just made the decision never to get that piece of paper.

Speaker 1: 26:40

I actually secretly love that man that is. It's such a common. It's a commonality amongst a lot of brand founders not all of them, but a lot of interesting people have a very similar story.

Speaker 4: 26:55

But yeah, I think at the time when I was young and trying to make the decision of like, go this route or that route, it was more, it was all tied around just how I felt internally. You know it, I never felt more excited to get up and to work a 20 hour day than I did when I was starting Blackstrap. You know, I never felt that way when I was in school or when I was doing an internship or any of that stuff. You know, I never felt that like passion and that fire, and Blackstrap gave me that and so I just chased it.

Speaker 1: 27:26

I mean, it wasn't just what was it, what was the passion Like? I could define that passion as a lot of different things, but I mean, when you break down what you're doing, you were solving a problem by making you know, teaching yourself how to sew fabrics Totally Like that in and of itself, maybe you became passionate about that process, but was it more that you became passionate about like, the overall, like? What can you do with this? How far can you take this? What was it that like?

Speaker 4: 27:55

It's funny. I look back and none of that even played in my mind then. It was all. It was all. It was like I was going to school, but I was going to school in real life.

Speaker 4: 28:03

So like the feeling of like learning business and you know, learning all the terminology and getting nose and figuring out how to overcome those nos and turn them into yeses, like all of that was what I was driving me every day it's. I had this like mindset that I was like I'm not gonna take no from anybody, I'm gonna be persistent. I know I have a good idea here. I just got to convince them of it.

Speaker 1: 28:49

Who encouraged you in that Like to not take? Is that just your innate personality, or did anyone else be? Did you have moments where you man should I. Is this worth it? No, that's my personality.

Speaker 4: 29:01

I mean, both my parents wanted me obviously to finish my track and, you know, go to school and then do those things and, you know, finish it 100%. But you know, I've never been one to follow the straight line. You know, I followed my heart and I just went after it. You know, and it's funny, me and my dad actually joked about this the other day because he said he used to give me a hard time. He used to say you know why a face mask company if, like, all the things that you could have done? And then COVID happened, you know, and we were like, aren't you glad I had a face mask company, you know? But yeah, it's just one of those things, you know. It's just, you know, when I want something, I'm gonna go after it and.

Speaker 4: 29:37

I'm gonna, you know, go after it hard and I'm gonna make sure I give it my 100%.

Speaker 1: 29:44

There's a book called Lone Over there, the Creative Act by Rick Rubin. You know who, rick Rubin?

Speaker 4: 29:48

is. I've heard of Rick Rubin. Yeah, I've read that book, though.

Speaker 1: 29:50

Yeah, it's good, but he has a chapter in there. They're short chapters and they're all about creativity, and he's of the mindset that ideas present themselves to us. Sometimes it's whether or not we're paying attention, because they'll come into the world one way or another, but if you're paying attention, you might just be the one that helps usher in that idea.

Speaker 4: 30:13

Totally, I still have those today. I'm like man. I thought of that 10 years ago. It's all about whether you're willing to act on it or not. It's so true.

Speaker 1: 30:21

Yeah, it's. That's what I get passionate about with this stuff is that exact act of like. That's a good idea, that it's the passion within the process of innovation.

Speaker 4: 30:31

Yeah, I think right now, I think even in the company, today, we still act the same way, because I'm constantly saying we can never be stagnant, we always have to be, thinking of what's next. What's the future? Who is the future? How do we do it?

Speaker 1: 30:47

You gotta be looking down the road.

Speaker 4: 30:48

Yeah, and I think you're not growing, you're dying. And so for me it's like and again, growing doesn't just mean selling more stuff. For me, growing means if we're professionally growing great, if the business is growing great. But how do we do it and why do we do it?

Speaker 1: 31:03

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4: 31:04

So O5, first job was in Bend First job I had here.

Speaker 1: 31:10

Actually I worked at Sears no way, yeah, totally, when it was at the Bend River Mall.

Speaker 4: 31:15

Is it still there? It is not there.

Speaker 1: 31:16

Yeah, it hasn't been there for a while.

Speaker 4: 31:18

Yeah, and I was in the. I was a lawn and garden associated, selling tractors. No way.

Speaker 1: 31:22

That's hilarious. I need to get a new. I just was priming my snowblower and broke the pole rope.

Speaker 4: 31:31

I gotta go get one of those today. It's funny that this weekend I was actually moving the snowblower for my dad, so I'm getting ready.

Speaker 1: 31:35

Yeah, it's coming, man. Yeah, sears, damn dude. My first job here was at Newport Market in the produce department.

Speaker 3: 31:43

There you go.

Speaker 1: 31:43

Making orange juice at night, so I could snowboard every day. It was hilarious. Yeah, it's funny for me.

Speaker 4: 31:48

I think I was always meant to be in jobs. I was always selling something. Yeah. So in Sears, it's funny, I got there and within like month number two, I was their number one seller and lawn and garden and I just made sure you know I had customers coming back and make sure I owned it. So you know, I think you know my dad's a speaker and he doesn't mind getting in front of a lot of people.

Speaker 4: 32:09

And so when I was young I was always put around a lot of people and so I just feel this innate comfort about being around people and talking and it came easy to me. And so I think selling came kind of easy because I would just have a conversation.

Speaker 1: 32:22

Yeah, you're incredibly relational, and that's what good sales are is develop relationships and you know, yeah, cause you're just solving a problem for someone. Yep, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 4: 32:33

Yeah, it was, you know, paid the bills, allowed me to go snowboarding, which was what I wanted to do.

Speaker 1: 32:39

And that's I mean. So 05, you started Blackstrap and 08. So like three years of kind of just living that lifestyle, just working the snowboard.

Speaker 4: 32:48

Yeah, I mean, I was only at Sears for about a year and I took I had thought to myself, like why don't I take the eBay idea that I was doing before and just kind of applying it so I can get a little more freedom and stuff? So it was funny I was known at a few of the local shops that used to call me Yabe, which was eBay backwards, because I yeah, I used to come in and I remember I got my first credit card, you know, had like a $500 limit or something and I would just go in and I'd buy their on sale items and then I would turn around and sell them on eBay and you know that kind of funded me, you know, for a bit. I learned a lot from that experience. You know I reflect back now, you know, cause obviously back then I wasn't thinking this way.

Speaker 4: 33:34

But what that business gave me is it gave me perspective on the customers. You know, like how do they shop, what are they looking for, why are they looking for it, you know? And I started to learn their, like shopping habits and their price challenges and I started to look at like how they were buying and what seasons were they peaking and buying in and again back then. I wasn't doing it for those reasons, but I look back now and I was like man that gave me a lot of knowledge, for sure.

Speaker 1: 34:00

Yeah, it was the first pass of a skill set. Yeah, it was funny.

Speaker 4: 34:04

We actually just had our national sales meeting. We had like 75 people in house at 10 barrel and the gal behind the bar came up to me. She's like I totally remember you. I used to pack all your boxes. You're the eBay guy.

Speaker 4: 34:17

And I was like yeah, it was like this full circle thing for me. I was like man number one. You can remember that and you know she came up and she gave me a high five and she's like it's really cool to see that you, that you made something of that company and I was like cool, it was rad.

Speaker 1: 34:30

Yeah, it's really rad.

Speaker 4: 34:31

It's part of that community. You know what I mean For me and Ben, it's like man. 15 years later, you still remember who I was and you're still here and it was cool. It was a cool thing.

Speaker 1: 34:42

Yeah, that's super cool. So 2010, I believe, is when you met your first employee who we heard from earlier Jim, totally yeah. And so I have a little bit more sound bite of Jim and, let's see, this is kind of sharing around the time when your guys pass first crossed and some of the early, early memories he has of working with you at Blackstrap.

Speaker 5: 35:12

I was living in Ben. I moved to Ben in 2007. I'd been in Ben for a couple of years and I was finishing up school and at the time I was a media producer. I was a videographer and did digital editing and shot photos and did a bunch of that kind of stuff and it was always everything's always been like snowboarding to me. So I was doing that and some buddies of mine were in a rail jam up at the college. So, like a lot of the guys that were in, I'm more friends of mine and we were filming like resort style stuff and they did like this little satellite one at COCC.

Speaker 5: 35:52

Like back then, like I said, it was probably 2010 or so and I was filming it. And those guys were all there and Abe had like a booth, like a tent there and they were like hey, like this dude has been giving us like face masks and blah, blah, blah and like you'd probably want to like buy some photos or buy some video from that event. And I was like cool, that's my business right now, like that's rad. And so I went and I met with Abe and his girlfriend at the time wife. Now we went and just met at Brojo's on the West side and like pretty quickly started talking to Abe about like what he was doing all this stuff and it was like very clear that like he didn't need images and video of like local snowboard kids. Like my background was in the skiing snow industry. I'd worked for a couple of companies and at the time I was working for Heli Hansen.

Speaker 5: 36:53

They had a like corporate store down at the Old Mill, and I was one of the guys that worked there and so I at least knew, like the structure of the industry, like not well at this time, but like there was more to it than like you had to go to these shows, you had to sell to these specific people, you had to do these things. I didn't really know what the methodology was behind it, but I knew that like I'd been to SIA in Vegas and at that point, like I pretty much was just like that, pretty much just said that to Abe. I was like you know, like I can see what you're like trying to do and I don't think, like you, I think there's these other things that you should, that you should look into, and I'd be down to like be a part of it and talk about it more. And then at a certain point it like kind of came to a head where it was like I was like dude, like here's what I'm making, like it's not much Like if you can pay me this much, like I'll just spend more time hanging out with you and we can figure out what's going to go on with Blackstrap, like at that time I think we had. Like there may have been some like term based accounts, but I bet it was.

Speaker 5: 38:00

A lot of it was consignment and shit and like I know, the story that Abe will tell you is like his first selling was Terry Blaylock at Bachelor and that was all like hand sewn stuff and like you know, like yeah, terry was at the ground floor, og Sheer Shahs, so like Jeremy Nelson and Maddie Gary and all those guys, suniverse Sports. It was a very like local core collection of shops. But I like it. So like I grew up in Portland snowboarding in Portland, so I knew I knew the shops in Portland, like I knew, like I grew up with Cal's pharmacy, but like I knew exit, I knew castle, I knew outdoor, I knew all those guys and I was like dude, I bet if we just go up there and like sling it, like we can do it, like we can sell it, you know. And so my caveat was like yo, if we go up there and we sell all these shops in, like we get an office.

Speaker 4: 39:06

I can't work in my bedroom anymore, I don't wanna drive to Sunriver anymore.

Speaker 5: 39:10

Like you can come hang out in your third bedroom. Like we need something, you know. And so we did. We went up and like couple of the guys that shot us down are like dudes now that we still work with in the industry. Like George who's at your outdoor store for a long time. Like I'm pretty sure he like told us to kick and rocks. Yeah, long story short, we just went and did that one sales trip up to Portland where we just like walked into places and we sold a bunch of shit and we have enough money to get an office and then we just kind of like straight up, just ran with it and I quit visit Bend.

Speaker 1: 39:49

So eloquent that's a great story, man it is. You guys have a cool Like no wonder your brand's working like that. You know, that's just a cool story. Yeah cool people doing cool shit.

Speaker 4: 40:02

It's funny that Jim says that too. It's uh, he definitely. You know, one of the things I loved about Jim from day one is man, that guy just has the balls that tell you what's on his mind, and I and I love that and I was like you know if I could be the business side of the brains and yeah you know he's willing to come up to me and just be like pay me X and I'll work for you. I was like man, this guy totally has to come to this brand for sure.

Speaker 1: 40:27

Yeah, there's, uh, you know it's, I'm learning quickly and start my own business that, yeah, the quicker you realize what role you fill and kind of that Entrepreneurial, slash manager, slash technician kind of trifecta, the better you are, because, yeah, you gotta, you gotta have someone that either Makes you look at things from a different perspective or he pushes back or, you know, fills in your weaknesses.

Speaker 4: 40:55

So yeah, Jim, and I say now we're like the ying and yang right. So yeah you know, jim has always been there to tell me what's on his mind or, you know, disagree when you needed to with me, and I was there to do the same on certain things. So worked out, it worked out well for sure.

Speaker 1: 41:09

I didn't know where what bro Joe's was, and then I thought it's brother John. Yeah, you got it. Yeah it was funny.

Speaker 4: 41:14

Yeah, jim didn't mention is like me. Totally tried to make that so formal. This is a formal interview.

Speaker 1: 41:21

I'm gonna buy the beer and everything you know and it was that is pretty formal and Ben, I mean I guess you're right now, but it was funny.

Speaker 4: 41:28

We tried to like sit. I tried to ask all these formal questions and Jim looked at me. Like you know, we always joke at the office. You know you hang out with Jim enough You're gonna drop some F bombs or say shit you know, and so that interview turned into us just hanging out and having a good chat.

Speaker 1: 41:42

That's incredible, man. It was good and and you just, you guys just got after it. Yeah, I mean it was.

Speaker 4: 41:48

We had some, like you know I would never say it was a hundred percent us we had some luck on our side. I mean the recession just happened Right so Places to rent and then, where you know, people were begging for even 20 cents a foot, you know. So, yeah, I mean Jim, right away. I knew Jim knew the snowboard scene, he knew the shops in Portland and you know we looked at each other like all right, cool, like we'll go in and we'll hustle and we'll grind and we'll get some stores. And, lucky enough, you know, rent was cheap and Ben, so we were able to get an office after that, which was cool.

Speaker 1: 42:17

Yeah, I talked to Gabe Triplett and he was telling me how his first, the first bearing skateboard I don't know if it was the first one of his Indoor parks was in. Your guys is old, he. He moved in right as you were moving out. Yeah, we.

Speaker 4: 42:34

Until this last building, we had moved, I think, 10 times in 15 years. So, wow, yeah, we were always, you know, at the time is, every time we saw some place slightly bigger, you know, go in and Jim and I would look at each other and the rest of the staff is like there's no way we could fill this. And then a year later We'd fill it. We'd always be like man, I'm like, how's this happening?

Speaker 1: 42:54

Dude, how's that going at your current location?

Speaker 4: 42:57

Current location we are stuffed to the gills, you know multiple spaces, containers, five people to an office. I mean we definitely are making it work, but we are close.

Speaker 1: 43:09

Yeah, I didn't know where you guys were located at your current location until maybe I don't like three years ago. My, my son's a big swimmer and he trains in the morning at boss. Oh, very cool. So before he got his driver's license, I was taking him at like 5 am and I'm like, oh, this is where blackstrap is. Yeah, you know, it's a cool little zone.

Speaker 4: 43:28

Yeah, it's a it's rather, we like it back there, it's like tucked away. It's kind of off the beaten path. It's just super rad and you know I got lucky at the time when we moved into that space. We never thought it would turn out to be what it is, but yeah, we like it back there. Yeah but Running out of space quick, you know, and you know it's a gym's note. I mean, you know we're actually. We just hit employee number 48.

Speaker 6: 43:50

Whoa.

Speaker 1: 43:50

Yeah the other day so 48, 48?

Speaker 4: 43:54

yep, we are stacked.

Speaker 1: 43:55

Dang man. Yeah, it's been cool, and now you have like a whole executive team.

Speaker 4: 44:00

Yeah, that was, you know, that was. It's crazy. I mean, obviously this was post-covid and, you know, culmination of what 13 and a half years of just Doing a lot of those decision-making. Myself and I just, you know, woke up one day and I was like I'm, we need, I need to change, we need to make this, you know. I need to make a change to give everybody a better version of me, you know, and to give the company the even stronger legs to take it into the next, just take it in the future, into the next step. So I just made the decision, made it happen.

Speaker 1: 44:35

Is that because you felt like you were spread too thin or you had, like, insufficient knowledge for how big the brand was getting, or Personal like?

Speaker 4: 44:45

I mean it's, it's a lot of factors.

Speaker 1: 44:47

I mean.

Speaker 4: 44:47

First factor is, you know, like like during this whole process. You know, randy Um shot me a message on linkedin randy torcom, who's our current VP of brand and marketing, and he you know got a pretty stacked resume.

Speaker 1: 45:00

He does.

Speaker 4: 45:00

And I remember looking at that and thinking to myself like wow, man, this guy that's got like Industry knowledge and he's been a vet, you know to kind and Burton and all these radical cases like he's hitting us up on linkedin, you know, and, uh, we got lucky at the time.

Speaker 4: 45:14

You know his life circumstances, you know, made it where he needed to stay in bend and you know he had an opening and we brought him on board and I remember quickly just being blown away about the knowledge of just not only just the industry but just Working in companies and corporate processes and all these things. And again, we don't want to be corporate, but bringing that knowledge was huge and quickly after that I was like, okay, this is what we need to do to take this brand to the next level. We got to bring in a team that no knows more than me.

Speaker 1: 45:44

Yeah, you know, yeah, and it's and it's been fun right.

Speaker 4: 45:46

Like, uh, I get to keep that. Like you know, I still run a lot of the day to day, but I get to keep that like founder mentality, like I get to throw out the ideas and like where I want the brand to go, and then they get to just be the ones to figure out how to do it, which is cool.

Speaker 1: 46:01

It's really cool. It makes me think. You know, I was thinking earlier and I heard in your interview with um bud, who's who you just told me is Randy's brother.

Speaker 4: 46:12

Uh, step brother, or something like that.

Speaker 1: 46:14

He talked about. You know, you guys, you guys, and I thought it was a really interesting area. I wanted to talk more with you about which, which was this concept of having skin in the game from the beginning. Yep, and you, you applied that early on, when you were first walking around selling your handmade masks which was you? You weren't willing to put them up for consignment Because consignment then meant that people were less, you know, motivated to sell them because they, they don't have any skin in the game. Yep, so you know, I think that plays off this, this psychological kind of concept of loss aversion, right, which is, people are more human behavior typically is more prone to, um, make decisions to avoid losses rather than to make gains. Yep, and you have a lot invested in blackstrap. So, you know, you, bringing Randy on makes sense because you have skin in the game, I guess, is what I'm thinking of. Does that make sense? It?

Speaker 3: 47:13

does make sense You're willing.

Speaker 1: 47:14

You know, like that's the same process, the same mindset you had back then, which was you know. But now you're on the other side of it because you know, technically the bigger brand gets. You know, as quick as things can go up, they can come down Totally, which is it's funny that you say that I I live every day still with the belief that we could go out of business tomorrow.

Speaker 4: 47:33

Yeah and so I've got to be smart, you know, about the moves that we make, yeah, but also smart about the way we hire right you know, we definitely the VP team now and the executive team um, I was very strategic in the hiring process and they're all obviously all people that work really well with me, but also all people that I knew that could become as passionate as me about the brand and have the same Wys and the same reasons to come to work every day. It wasn't just about you know growing their professional career I mean, actually all of them are. You know, essentially, you know taking a step back from like really successful jobs and you know coming to work here because they all believe in the same thing that we can make this brand something great.

Speaker 1: 48:13

That's. That speaks volumes, man. It's totally like it from an outsider's perspective. You know like it's. It's one thing for one person to do that, but for multiple that like really validates a lot.

Speaker 4: 48:27

It does, yeah, it does, for sure, and it's uh you know, I feel humbled every day that I get to work with people as smart as they are, you know yeah, it's cool man I'm.

Speaker 1: 48:36

You know I, I look forward to seeing where what black shirt looks like in 15 more years. I do, I do too. I mean uh.

Speaker 4: 48:43

We're on that. We're on a path of uh, you know, just, you know we found our footing. You know we've we've always made really good product.

Speaker 4: 48:51

I would say we were a product-based company, because that's what I knew how to do. You know, I knew how to take a product, make it better and make sure it solves somebody's problems, and the team now is on a mission to figure out how to like, build the brand and make product and brand have a baby, and I think that's going to be the key to our success over the next 15 years.

Speaker 1: 49:10

Yeah, no doubt yeah, and all speak more to, because a lot of people will know the story about the early days of manufacturing and and acquiring materials and and what that process looks like. But Talk about what it looked like back then, like in the early days and and and now what does it look like between Purchasing fabric, what's the lifespan of that fabric, between when it, you know, when you own it to, to it showing up at you know mount bachelor retail store?

Speaker 4: 49:42

Yeah, it's actually a funny story because a lot of the processes and things we do today are the same way. I built them 15 years ago, you know, and obviously by accident. I mean, we just don't have all the cool tools that we, you know, we don't have the cool tools that we had today, that we had back, you know it's basically, you know different. Now I mean, you can get on better sewing machines.

Speaker 4: 50:02

I mean better sewing machines better. You know I wasn't. I don't have to fax in order anymore, I don't have to get pick up the phone as much. I mean, back in the day was a grind, you know, and, and At the time, the sewing industry in like 2005, 2008, was destroyed, you know, from the recession and, um, it was tough. You know I was calling around, um, you know, finding mills that were making carpets and trying to convince them to figure out. Hey, you know, I have this idea for a fabric, can you make this for me instead? And I think it all played to my favor and the the economy was down and everything was down, so they were willing to gamble, you know, and, uh, it's, it's a lot of what we do now is the same, just different. You know, we're still using a lot of the same mills. We're still using our same sewing contractors. It's just all bigger.

Speaker 4: 50:52

Yeah you know they got. You know it's um. You know we joked. I joked with them one of them the other day where they said uh, bed on a good horse.

Speaker 1: 50:59

Yeah, you know, it's probably fun to like have built those relationships over time.

Speaker 4: 51:04

It is, it is, it's, uh, it's different. You know that industry is very different. You know every bit of every step of the way there was me trying to figure out when you say that industry, you mean textiles or manufacturing.

Speaker 4: 51:16

Textiles and manufacturing you know the thought process, um how they feel that they're succeeding, um what they're looking for in the relationship. All of that is just very different from what you get on the other side. I'm selling to a ski or snowboard shop, and so for me, it was um learning how to adapt to what their needs were and making sure that I was building the right relationships and for and, frankly, most of the business back then was just me giving them my on ideas on how to pivot their business. Like, hey, I, I have this idea for fabric that you're not what I was gonna ask that you're not making.

Speaker 4: 51:47

You can make this for me, but maybe you can make some of it for somebody else too, you know. And then the sewing was the same way. It's like hey, you know, you've been dying jeans in la for a hundred years. You want to try sewing something, you know.

Speaker 1: 52:00

And so that's really basically where it started, you know yeah, because the technology I mean you know, I get on your website and you're, you know your product line is is pretty basic in terms of what you offer, but the, the quality of the fabrics and the technology of the fabric seems to be where you differentiate yourself from competitors. Yeah, and that's what talk more about that.

Speaker 4: 52:21

Yeah, that will never change. You know, we've always been a fabric first company. Um, fabric first meaning that the technology and the fabric is always going to drive the product. Um, the other thing is and I learned real uh, uh, young in this business is we want to keep our lines super tight. We want to build, you know, a few good products and give the customers a lot of color to choose from. You know I, I learned early on at the time, you know, there was a lot of bad face masks, right, and their answer is just to make more bad face masks, to sell more.

Speaker 4: 52:52

And I didn't just want to sell stuff, I wanted to actually fix people's day on hill. So I knew make a good quality mask, start with the fabric and then just give the customers a lot of options. And so that's pretty much. You know how it started. You know I, google is my friend. Um, I was figuring out, you know, fabric blends. Um, even till this day I'm talking to knitters and giving them new ideas on how to knit fabric. You know, like what if you take this and this and put it together, you know which is Mind-boggling boggling for some of these guys, but they just that's how they think, right, I've been doing it this way.

Speaker 4: 53:24

Just try to flip the script and do it a different way.

Speaker 1: 53:26

Your idea is to present to them for innovation.

Speaker 4: 53:30

Yeah, I think essentially it's like how I operate a blackstrap, too right it's. I never sit Uh, stagnant.

Speaker 4: 53:38

Yeah, I'm always going to be like, okay, how can we do this better, how can we do that better? And I apply that same mentality to our contractors. You know I'm, you know I'm like how can we make the tag more efficient? How can we make it better for the uh, for the planet? How can we get it to the consumer in the right way, where they feel passionate about the things that we're doing in the Background and make this a you know, a better product and better for the planet? And all those things, all that stuff is always going through my mind.

Speaker 4: 54:02

Yeah 100 percent of my 100 percent of time, even if it costs us more.

Speaker 1: 54:06

Yeah, I, I believe you when you say that. You know, I think a lot, of a lot of brands can have a Try to check a marketing box with some of that stuff, specifically some of the eco-friendly stuff. But like learning how you guys upcycle your, you know, like scrap material and the goggle covers and the fishing Thing and that was that's totally stem from an idea that I was like man, well, what's the problem?

Speaker 4: 54:35

right, because you see all these bottles, right, they're talking about like oh, I I made this short with eight bottles and then, but I just kept reading that like 50 million bottles are going in the ocean. I can't remember every hour, every minute, I can't remember. It's something insane, right? And I was like that's not the problem. The problem is we got to keep them out, and so for me, it's like with fabrics, it's like what could we really do to like Just not throw waste into a landfill? And I was like, oh cool, we can make product that's never going to break, you know, that's durable and it could be useful and it just doesn't get you get into the landfill right.

Speaker 1: 55:07

But I guess the point I was wanted to make was your motive for that wasn't to turn a profit necessarily, because it was to Truly, you know, not let that stuff land in the landfill.

Speaker 4: 55:18

Yeah, if you come by the facility and check it out. I mean, a lot of the things we do are not profit driven at all. It's just, you know, we want to make sure that you know, our employees know that we're trying to do the best by them and by the Planet. And if, if we put that out into the world and we really didn't do it internally, that'd be a problem.

Speaker 4: 55:35

Absolutely yeah, and so for us it's you know, it's important, you know, and a lot of people grapple onto that, you know, and then they bring their own ideas on how to make it better.

Speaker 1: 55:44

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4: 55:44

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 55:45

Yeah, so you're starting to. I notice you're starting to expand into, I mean, sunshirts, but it seems like a big application of that is like fishing type stuff, like Central Oregon kind of outdoor summer Apparel to some degree, because there's like UV protection built into it. It seems like a lot of it's. You know you're a fly fisherman, correct? Yeah, I mean, I can only imagine the application of some of your new product lines on rivers and lakes, you know, I mean we're essentially sticking in our wheelhouse and doing what we know how to do.

Speaker 4: 56:21

I mean, our first branch out of face masks was actually base layer, for you know so we got. So we got into base layers for, you know, winter wear and Then to branch out of that to make it to you know help the seasonality with the business.

Speaker 4: 56:35

We thought hey, you know we'll come out with upf Shirts and you know we've identified as a company that you know we're no longer just a face mask company, we're definitely a mountain lifestyle brand. We want to make sure we're building products Essentially for, like people in the bent community. You know people that ski and snowboard but also fly fish and paddle board and do all those things. Then you mountain bike everything. So you know we're taking our idea of building fabric first products and just applying them into new zones.

Speaker 1: 57:03

Yeah, yeah, I want to get some of your under under layers.

Speaker 4: 57:07

They look good yeah they don't just look good, they feel good. Yeah, and it's. Maybe this is like founder syndrome a little bit, but like I must have tried our base layers on, you know, women and men and kids, like hundreds of people, because I just wanted it to fit and feel right you know, I like I thought about all the problems that were bugging me and problems that were bugging others, and Figuring out how we could solve those problems.

Speaker 4: 57:30

You know, and not, and again, not just building another product that we could sell, but build something that truly makes that experience better.

Speaker 1: 57:36

Yeah, I have a buddy who's, I think, will's semi retired, you could say, but he teaches part time up at osu and In there I think it's the school of business, like cascade school of business, and last year he was teaching an outdoor product development class and he asked me to come up and Be part of the audience that was going to judge. Uh, I think there were three or four pitches that were being performed on like MVP level products that his class had been working on all year. And there was, there was this one kid in the class, student I shouldn't call him a kid, everybody's a kid anymore um, but his name is max reed and, uh, he started max reed apparel, which is he started it out of his dorm room and it's basically he's trying to manufacture and market and build a business around Uh, kind of urban style, kind of ski and snowboard pants, and he's just starting with the pants. So I've kept in touch with him because he, you know he, just he has, he has that thing, you know like there's certain kids you you hear pitch their brand and it's like they're passionate about it and you know it's they're not going to give up and it's like, you know it's only a matter of time.

Speaker 1: 58:56

So I've kept in touch with him and I actually want to do a podcast with him at some point. Um, just as a young person hit their perspective coming up in bend or again in 2023 and like trying to balance paying for rent and getting a pass, and you know, I think he hustles man. It's good, you know.

Speaker 4: 59:14

That's the number. That's the number. One thing you need it's, I've learned is persistence and hustle.

Speaker 1: 59:19

Yeah, for sure. So I wanted to offer him an opportunity, kind of participate in this, so nice. Um, I called him and, uh, he wanted to share his blackstrap story. But then also he has a question for you.

Speaker 6: 59:33

Cool, my name is max reed and I own a small brand called max reed apparel and I make ski pants here in bend. Uh, I hand sew custom ski pants and then I get, um, uh, larger quantities produced by manufacturer and, um, I'm really just trying to bring more of a street style to skiing and build on the park style and street style and skiing and snowboarding. I've been wearing black straps since I was probably like 10 years old and, um, I remember when I was like 15 I emailed them and asked for them to sponsor me and they gave me a 50 discount code. 50 discount code and like, just that like made me a customer for life for sure. So every year I buy a face mask, like to to match my Outfit for the year, and I have been probably since I was 10 years old.

Speaker 6: 1:00:30

And then I also toured their Toward, their facility and bend uh with my class. So that was really cool too to see the whole, to see what, to see how they make everything. When I toured the facility I had already I had already been working on max reed apparel. I was like two, maybe two years into it, but seeing the black strap facility with all the um sublimators and the way that they do. It was really inspiring because I want to be able to Do all that stuff myself and not have it made overseas.

Speaker 6: 1:01:05

Uh, because it's it's more sustainable and that you can have a closer eye on the detail that's going into it and make sure that the quality is really high If it's right in your backyard, um, so that's like a big inspiration for me, for sure. So, first of all, like when I emailed when I was 15, I got that discount code. I kind of want to know, um, how often do you guys do partnerships with ambassadors and how has that played a role in scaling the growth of black strap? And with that, like, has social media really helped in scaling black strap as well? Okay, I appreciate you, adam. Thank you.

Speaker 4: 1:01:47

Okay, good questions, good for him.

Speaker 1: 1:01:49

Yeah, max is rad, he uh, before you answer his questions, he also is like On the on the bubble of graduating college and he has decided, I think, at this point, to go all in with max read apparel.

Speaker 4: 1:02:05

The time is when you're young.

Speaker 1: 1:02:06

Yeah, you know, yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:02:07

I mean again when I, when I made the decision to jump into black strap. I remember actively making the decision like if I'm going to do this, I'm going to do it. Yeah 1 000 percent. There's no backing out totally and so you know, but also with the safety net, knowing that if I were to fail, I could, I could maybe do something else right, you know um. But yeah, rad for max you know, I mean it takes a lot of guts to want to start a business for sure, especially in the skiing snowboard industry.

Speaker 1: 1:02:34

100 yeah, I'll have. Uh, I'll have his link to his website and stuff on the show notes so people can check it out. It's max read apparelcom and he's, he's the real deal. He's a ripping skier too. He's got good style. So yeah so I think his questions were about kind of brand ambassadors and then the role of social media marketing in the growth of black strap.

Speaker 4: 1:02:56

Yeah, it's funny, uh, two of those things uh landed right in uh gym's court, you know, in the beginning and obviously now have moved on to uh randy and his team. But yeah, we never had the funding for ambassadors to do it like some of these other brands, right, we couldn't get the product on. You know, big sponsored names and gym was pretty Added in the beginning. That and even I was. If you talked to jim, you know I was just I was giving out mass to the right people and I knew that If I got the right mass on the right people in this community, the community would support it.

Speaker 4: 1:03:27

You know, and I knew that right out of the gate, and especially if it was a product that was good and that they like to wear, and so, yeah, and that's always been a motto of ours, to make sure that, like you know, if the community reaches out and you know they, they want to rock our product, we're stoked to have them in it. Um, and I would say, you know, for max it would be the same thing. You know, get it on the right people. You know, and in many ways they were our proving ground too. Right, these are the people that were out, you know, 30, 40, 50 days at least the season. They were beating up the product and they would give us the feedback and it was, it was awesome, right. So, like we, we've got community support, but we also got the feedback to make the product better.

Speaker 4: 1:04:03

And then, on the social media side, I would say it's been okay. You know, it's never, it's never been Something we've concentrated on. Um, you know, obviously our social media platforms have been there for a while. It's an outlet for us to, you know, speak about the brand, show who we are, um, but honestly, it's never been a huge factor for us. You know, I I'm very adamant on old school marketing.

Speaker 4: 1:04:27

Yeah guerrilla style, like getting getting in the shops, getting face to face. Um, we actually are working on a program now where we have, um, um, basically like an ambassador at every store, somebody that's like an advocate for the brand that will help the brand in every store in the country, right, and then we'll stuck those kids out and make sure that they're feeling inspired and they're stuck on the brand, and then the brand will do well too. You know? So, yeah, it's uh, not every recipe for every brand is the same. I can tell you that. Um, my feedback to max would be find the recipe that works for you. You don't have to, like, follow one path. You can take a little bit from a lot of different brands and come up with something really good. Yeah, that's cool man.

Speaker 1: 1:05:08

Yeah, when I was talking to Jim, he was talking about some of the strategic kind of marketing early on with, you know, supporting park crew everywhere, from park crews to ski schools. Right, and like you start thinking about it. Well, yeah, you know, from a business standpoint, especially for the last, call it 15 years or however long. Every Time a little kid takes a ski school lesson now they wear a helmet and they need something under that helmet. Right, for me it's just.

Speaker 4: 1:05:36

How do we connect with the community? I mean even our, like you know, our park crew project and even our first chair project that we have going on now it's we give out 50 masks to almost what?

Speaker 4: 1:05:46

75 plus resorts on their opening day and that's just to stoke people out, like All we want to do is make sure people are protected and they're stoked on our gear. Yeah, you know, and that I think in the ski community in general, that's the best way to for people to resonate with your brand, right? They're like here's this brand that's growing, but not forgetting their roots, you know, and like the people that helped them get there. I guess is a good way to put it. I think that's what I'm most proud about humbled every day I'm stoked on where the brand is today.

Speaker 4: 1:06:18

I'm excited for where the brand is going to go tomorrow. But most of all, like I've gotten to work with a lot of rad people over the years and working with rad people now and it's not all been, you know, rainbows and perfect, but it's been a fun ride- you know, and that's what I'm looking forward to continuing for sure, we can talk about starting a brand in Bend Oregon. You know like outside of the community a little bit maybe you know and like that you know, actually building a brand here.

Speaker 1: 1:06:45

Yeah, talk about that.

Speaker 4: 1:06:47

It's tough as hell you know, we, um, when I first started the brand, like we didn't know, I don't know, I didn't know what I don't know Right, and I didn't know that there wasn't an infrastructure here for Shipping, and getting products here and being made in the USA was tough, you know. We were shipping from, you know, 15 different points in the country. You know Ben wasn't a place on the map where trucks were coming through, and so shipping was really expensive At the time, in the early days. You know, we had a just a UPS hub, but every time it snowed it would shut down, you know, and people wouldn't get their products on time. And it was just a learning curve, you know. And so Figuring the intrinsic intricacies of Bend and like how it operated to make sure that we could be successful to get, was very key.

Speaker 4: 1:07:34

I mean, you can see a lot of brands that have started in Bend or left Bend because they couldn't grow in Bend. It's tough, you know, and then, and over the years, that's kind of shifted a little bit too right, because now the biggest problem we have is how do we get More talent in Bend, you know, but also, to that same note, how do we get people that want to have their first job and work in our warehouse and then, right, like most people, don't move to Bend, work in a warehouse, you know and so trying to like, balance all these things and figure it out has been crazy. But I don't know if you heard, but we are building our new corporate offices and campus.

Speaker 4: 1:08:13

Oh, no yeah so Right on the corner of ninth and Wilson, is a big sign.

Speaker 4: 1:08:18

No you know blackstrap, you know we're. It's been a three, four year project with the city now and we're building our new corporate offices, our new campus. It's a campus style building, about 77,000 square feet, three and a half acres, and that was kind of like a really pivotal moment for me because it was I finally got to in a real big way can show that I, we, can contribute Back to this community by staying here, growing here and doing it the right way. And so, yeah, we're super stoked. We have this winner. Next we spring at 25 is when we're slated to move in. They actually start erecting the building this January, which we're psyched on and that'll be not only corporate offices, but Manifold everything.

Speaker 1: 1:09:06

Yep, we're gonna have our blackstrap campus.

Speaker 4: 1:09:08

Yeah we're gonna have it's called midway. You know, just cuz it's midtown. It's right in between the midway between the east and the west side. The logo that logo is actually pretty fun to. It's a M&W, but it signifies embroidery and stitching when you look at it. Yeah just kind of show who we are.

Speaker 4: 1:09:25

Yeah and yeah we you know we are talking to. You know Lots of other like like-minded businesses and brands that want to move to Bend, because what we're trying to do is create a community atmosphere. You know, somewhere, you know we're another brand that could be just starting out, or another brand that could be big, that can come in and we can vibe off of each other and really establish in a big way this outdoor community that you know Bend has for sure.

Speaker 1: 1:09:51

Have there been people in your life that have played that role that you're trying to play with others, which is kind of a we've been where you're at, you know we are where you're trying to get, like I think of other outdoor kind of brands and Bend like that, like I guess maybe the one that comes to mind would be like Roughware or someone else that you know like pretty unique story, obviously successful, kind of self-funded, grown up here and stayed here, you know, and created a lot of jobs here.

Speaker 4: 1:10:25

While not one person has been that for me, which is why I am the way I am because I want to be that person for other people in a big way.

Speaker 4: 1:10:34

I've had moments where many of the brand leaders here have helped me out. You know I one of it's actually funny. It's a story about Will at Roughware and I remember I called him and then emailed him and you know he took my email and I went into one of their conference rooms and he had all his whiteboards up with all this information and you know it was such a welcoming moment for me because he wasn't afraid to show me what they were doing, he was willing to talk to me about it and that was one of the moments I can look back and remember being a pivotal moment for me, and how I want to operate when I get bigger is to make sure that, like a max or whoever, they could come to me for mentorship or whatever. But I'm going to tell them the real world of what's. I'm going to tell them the real, you know. I'm going to tell them the tough parts.

Speaker 4: 1:11:25

I'm going to tell them the great parts about it all, and Will was one of those moments that did that for me right, because he, you know he talked to me about business a little bit growing up in Bend, some of the things that I was going to run into that was going to be tough, and I, just with this midway campus, I want to kind of have more of that, you know, create a place where, like people don't have to suffer the same way and don't have to go through the same trials and tribulations although some of them are good, right, but not exactly in the same ways and so, yeah, yeah, you can't.

Speaker 1: 1:11:53

You can't avoid all growing pains in a certain degree of suffering. I, I, I'm, the opinion is good for you 100%. And at the same time, like there's a lot you know, wisdom is just sharing. You know what's worked over time right to sustain life we've come stronger from all the mistakes we've made.

Speaker 1: 1:12:14

You know, and we believe me, we've made a lot. Yeah, took the week off work a few weeks ago and participated in the entire Bend venture conference week, just because it's, you know, if you're interested in startup and business and venture capitalism and funding and all the things that are part of this ecosystem, it's a, it's a phenomenal education. I mean I learned so much in one week, you know, just getting opportunity to like go to some of these functions and meet people and have conversations with them and it's, it's fun man, and there's a lot of you know.

Speaker 1: 1:12:51

I mean, will was one of the keynote speakers there, you know, and and you participated in the bat, the Bend Outdoor Works panel discussion, which is is more focused on, you know, outdoor brands and you know there's a lot of differences but a lot of similarities too in terms of, you know, scaling, struggles and logistics and from kind of, like you said, being in Central Oregon and it's limited access in ways and if you really pay attention to and watch, it's Bend's learning as a community, what kind of community we want to be.

Speaker 4: 1:13:23

You know, like you know, I've seen tech and I've seen outdoor and I've seen CPG products and beverage and we're. You know as much as there's all these successes of business and failures in Bend, the community itself is also trying to learn its successes and failures.

Speaker 4: 1:13:38

Right, we're learning what works for, what we can do here successfully, and that's been a rad experience to watch over 15 years to you know, and and the community too, figuring out like a CPG company can totally, you know, or a food and beverage company can talk to an outdoor products company, and there's some synergy there. We can figure out like things that work and things that don't work, because we're very similar in many ways and that's been kind of cool too yeah and then you meet a lot of rad people. Totally, you know that, you know it's like mind ball, you know like how different entrepreneurs can be and how they think, and that part's super cool yeah, it's that.

Speaker 1: 1:14:19

That was my most enjoyable part of that week, where the conversations I had with people you know and there's man, there's some interesting people that call this place home, at least half the year now you know, like with different startup stories of their own you know from all different sectors of business.

Speaker 4: 1:14:37

So yeah, well you know, I got a question for you actually yeah well, what's your take on blackstrap? You know like what you know. What's your experience with the brand over the last 15 years?

Speaker 1: 1:14:48

that's a great question. I think it's different in the last two weeks and it was and and that's full transparency, I've you know and it goes back to what I grew up doing, right like when I snowboarded a lot. We didn't wear money, face masks, and I've been in all sorts of different climate and conditions all over the world and never had it, and then I finally started wearing a like just a gator you know like a fleece gator and I've always, ever since I was a little kid.

Speaker 1: 1:15:27

I remember my mom buying me for Christmas one year one of those neoprene face masks that made you look like a, like a Cobra commander and a. Velcro on the back and I hated that thing.

Speaker 1: 1:15:37

Yeah, I bought a blackstrap last year, so you know like there's clearly an application with and without a helmet, but with the helmet it's almost a necessity, right? So it was very clear you guys were owning the space. I didn't have any real personal like involvement in that space other than my kids, who that's all they've ever. You know, I mean, and you know your marketing and branding.

Speaker 1: 1:16:04

In terms of color, like options, I mean, all three of my kids love picking out different colors different patterns that you know I mean there's so much autonomy in their choice, you know, which is massive for kids.

Speaker 1: 1:16:21

Clearly, you know, like, as I've prepared for this interview and gotten to look into the history of the brand and, and you and you know I mean this is why podcasting, in my opinion, is such a valuable marketing tool because, like, I will always be a black blackstrap, like customer. Now, like I know, I'm going to love your base layers because, like, I'm back and you as a person, like a hundred percent, I'm back in your work ethic. I'm back in your story how you moved here. I'm back in how you're you're, bill, you've built something that now is going to contribute back to this place. I'm absolutely back in things that you're looking at, like how do we, how do we create jobs here but also make those jobs offer earning wage in a community that's dramatically changed from when you and I moved here and a lot of people and a lot of our friends because we have a lot of mutual friends are having to work harder to maintain a lifestyle that they used to have shouldn't be that way and that's backwards right.

Speaker 1: 1:17:20

So, like you know, that's deviating from why I'm a blackstrap customer, but not really. You know the fact that you think about that stuff. That's that's. There's a lot of value in that. So how's that for an answer?

Speaker 4: 1:17:35

that's a great answer. I'll take it. I mean it's.

Speaker 1: 1:17:39

I do you want to, I do you want to design some sort of fleece netgater with you though?

Speaker 4: 1:17:43

yeah, I know a lot of people like fleece and you know always tell you will never make fleece yeah we do have.

Speaker 1: 1:17:50

It's called thermal and it's our version of fleece and I'm going to, I'm going to get one, yeah, so we have that.

Speaker 4: 1:17:56

We have that out there for the fleece fans you know I mean it gives you all the benefits of fleece. You know, it's warm, it's fuzzy, it's cozy yeah but it's got that traditional blackstrap outer, so yeah won't freeze up, you know yeah, I'm in needed to do. I'm in, yeah, and I know and I know your kids will be stoked too. You know, I mean, we, we learned a lot. We learned if we could stoke out kids at that age, then the parents are stoked, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:18:19

I mean, you know, you guys have become a product for, not just a subs group of outdoor recreationalists. I mean, you know, within the scope of skiing snow, yeah, you got all your bases covered. But now you know, I mean it's really cool, you've become a brand that's not for it's kind of all things for all people. Really is the way I see it, and from from like a, you're doing a very, very good job in the spaces that you operate in right now, which makes me believe wholeheartedly, as you expand into the other spaces, you're going to continue the same kind of trend.

Speaker 4: 1:18:54

I think, I think the reason we, we will, I'm going to say we will be successful is because the entire team believes the same mission and that's we're going to build quality product that people are stoked on, and not just product to some more stuff you know we want. You know, I truly want people to have exceptional days on hill yeah and that's you know, ultimately, why we do this. So yeah, do you think I should tell my Mount bachelors story? But it's funny in the community with.

Speaker 1: 1:19:26

Terry yeah, yeah, well, I'm trying to get in touch with Terry to do you have his number? I don't.

Speaker 4: 1:19:32

Terry retired I know two years ago and he pretty much went silent. It's funny because one of our first ambassadors was his son, jeff okay you know and Jeff were the product for many years yeah, tell the tell the Terry story. Yeah, and you can also. You know Todd and Shanda been around since the beginning to yeah, I talked to Shanda already oh nice she'll be on the episode you don't get to

Speaker 4: 1:19:58

listen to everything yeah, I guess I'll tell you the story of, like, I guess, the aha, the light bulb moment. You know I was snowboarding and it's funny the community will laugh about this because everybody feels the same way. But you know, I went up and Skyliner was actually closed that day, you know, and it was windy on that side of the mountain and pine was open and so, you know, I made the reluctant decision to go over to pine and parked in the parking lot and it was one of those days that it was like rainy, wet ish at the bottom and I took the lift right up pine and it turned to like that snow. My wife calls it snane yeah, like the sleet you know.

Speaker 4: 1:20:41

Then you know, I got towards the middle of the mountain, it was blowing Mach 60 and my goggles started to freeze over, and then you know, like the last 50 to 100 feet of pine where you just get over that and no, and it's like new king new king and oh yeah so, and then the sun came out and I was like, wow, like I experienced every weather pal possible on one Lyphride.

Speaker 4: 1:21:04

And that was when I went down and we talked about it earlier I bought the Hannibal Lecter mask. You know, I, terry Blalock, was actually the person behind the counter that sold me the mask and I'll tell you about that later and it was a terrible experience. When I wore it froze to my face, the Velcro was like itching me in the back, it was like sticking to my beanie I didn't wear a helmet at the time, you know and it just wasn't great. And then, at the same time, I noticed everybody was wearing, you know, all the cool kids were wearing cotton bandanas.

Speaker 4: 1:21:34

Sean White yeah, I know I mean right, but at the same time I started to notice that everybody was wearing a bunch of frozen triangles.

Speaker 4: 1:21:41

They were like frozen solid, yeah, you know, and I just didn't have a good experience and I realized also a bachelor, it was the first time I'd ever needed a mask I was like, oh, wow, this is like actually affecting how I feel, you know, and I was like more concentrating on trying to protect myself. Then, you know, shred the power. So I went back home and started, you know, researching and googling fabrics and, you know, at first is just a mission to make my day better, you know, and so I bought some fabric online you know about a sewing machine from like Joann's or whatever it was named at the time and then and sewed up a mask I actually still have the mask too, which is crazy but sewed it up and wore it out on hill and what it what ended up happening is is every lift ride, I started getting people asking me where that, where I got it from right. They were like, oh, like you look comfortable. Basically was the sentiment like, oh, they had snow cakes on their fleece mask, frozen triangles, you know. They had their neoprene mask with a nose thing on their chin, just you know.

Speaker 4: 1:22:36

And they kept asking me where I was, where I got this from, and that's when I kind of had the aha moment that I was like I was already doing eBay and I was like, oh cool, maybe I could like side hustle and sell some of these things, you know, and so went home, you know, bought all the thread I needed, bought some more bolts of fabric and I sewed up 50 of these things and basically the way it went is, you know, I was like, okay, I'm gonna go to the guy that sold me that mask and I'm gonna sell him my mask, you know. And I didn't know anything about buyers or you know terms or like anything. I just walked in and one thing I knew I could do is have a good conversation, and so I went in and I didn't even know his name at the time. I described what he looked like and they pointed to this back room and he had his office was like below the stairs, like in the back corner of a hallway, you know, and it was like I remember I don't get nervous much and I was nervous like walking down the hallway and I walked in and he looked up at me and no idea, didn't remember who I was, and I just went right into it like, hey, I have this mask and I want to sell you 50, you know, and at the time I later on I figured out why.

Speaker 4: 1:23:46

But Terry took pity on me and he had a soft spot in his heart for local brands, you know, and so he bought all 50 which I was hyped on, still didn't know how to enter the store, still didn't know how to invoice him, right. He was asking me questions that I had no idea the answers to, but I remember I was like taking mental notes and the thing that was crazy, you know. I was like, you know, I remember like I was like felt so cool. I took my mom out to dinner that night and I was like, come on, this is so cool.

Speaker 4: 1:24:10

I sold 50 of these masks and the next morning, like 1130 or so, he called me and he was like I need 50 more. And that was like the oh shit moment, like those took me like two weeks to sell, you know. So I spent up all night, you know, and I sold him 50 masks and I drove him up there, which was also right at the time, because my, again, my mind was like I get to snowboard. So like I was driving up there and I was getting to snowboard at the same time. So it was really cool. And then this went on for like almost three weeks just back to back, and that's when I also learned like those snow cycles that come through Bend late season you know, february, march were epic and they were great for face mask sales and so, and mind you, this whole time I didn't sell him a single or send him a single invoice. I didn't know what I was doing and shake deals.

Speaker 4: 1:24:58

Yeah, pretty much and love it you know, we ended up selling a lot of mass I have no idea is probably over a thousand and that's when I thought I had a thing you know. And so then you know, obviously we had got powder house on board and side effects and aspect and we started getting all the shops on board and then and then you know, you heard from Jim earlier that's and how it ended up meeting.

Speaker 4: 1:25:20

Jim you know, I was at the campus rail jam tour, still grinding, you know, trying to sell masks and you know, and in many ways I think, like even Jim took a chance on me too, right, you know, like you know, I look back and it's like man, he put his whole career in my hands and I think that's how I got to snowboard and I think that's how I kind of function nowadays, like if people feel lucky, everybody that comes and works for me, like I feel very lucky to have them. You know even all the employees over the years. You know a lot of our ambassadors and our team riders were Pete, they're helping us in the warehouse in the early days and we have pictures of like guys that would go to a rail jam in the evening but they were packaging product in a small little office all day and so like that, I think all of that cumulative has been, you know, a contribution to our success for sure.

Speaker 1: 1:26:06

Yeah, man, it's just an authentic brand, you know. I mean, it's a community of people with a good product. It's not an, it's not an overly complicated formula, you know, it's just. You just have the right people doing the right things for the right reasons.

Speaker 4: 1:26:22

Totally and we had great community to support over the years. Whether it's like purchasing and most of the time it wasn't purchasing, most of the time it was just kind words are there if we needed a helping hand? I mean, many times we'd call people that didn't work for us to come in and help us get product out. You know, and I think that's what it takes to, you know, be successful for sure.

Speaker 4: 1:26:42

Is to know that you have a community that supports you. One of my executive team members came up to me the other day and he's like I just really wanted to work for you, and that was like a hit the heart hard too, because, you know, that's something I've never thought I would hear in my life, you know, and that made me feel like, okay, I must be doing a few things right.

Speaker 4: 1:27:01

Yeah, you know if I, if you know somebody that has this kind of a 10 years willing to say that to me, yeah, so that's been. It's been rad.

Speaker 1: 1:27:08

Well, I think that there's going to be a lot of people who you know realize that you're the type of guy that you know We'll take a couple minutes to read an email and it feels like they can help them out in some way. It means that you're it seems like you're happy to do that, seems like that's what a big part of this midway kind of campus is going to be. You're baking into it is this sense of kind of resource in a way.

Speaker 4: 1:27:31

Yeah, it's, it's. Sometimes it's almost to my detriment, because I try to write everybody back. I'm sure you know, I want you know, I tell all the team members to know that too. It's like if somebody's taking the time out of their day to like sell you something or ask you a question or ask you for help, we should take the time to give them the answer. Yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:27:48

You know what I mean? It's it's a lot of the things that we didn't get, and so if that's the one thing we can do to make it easier on the next person we should totally do it. Yeah. Especially in a community like this right.

Speaker 1: 1:27:57

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:27:57

This community needs to not forget the community part of the word community, you know, as we get bigger, which we will right, we need to remember that. You know there's a lot of people here that have been in bends since it was twenty, thirty thousand people, and that's why they moved here, and so we got to keep that aspect of it as much as we can.

Speaker 1: 1:28:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. That's a. It's well said and it's in people listening this that want to know how they can learn about those other community options. Go back and look at the catalog of podcasts. I mean a lot of the different podcasts. That's the, the ethos of it. Oh, here's a nonprofit trail alliance or a whatever equine center or a veterans ranch or something. That how you get involved, right.

Speaker 4: 1:28:46

Yeah, and that's why podcasts are rad like I was telling you earlier. You're going to time capsule the different stages you know and then it's grown up fast in the last ten years and my prediction is the next ten are going to be a whirlwind. For sure so you know things like this, that we can remember where we were and then you know to figure out how we got to where we were going is going to be super rad.

Speaker 1: 1:29:07

Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 4: 1:29:09

I commend you for getting into this side of the business.

Speaker 1: 1:29:12

it's been yeah, this is fun this turned into. This was just a little bit of a passion project that started over COVID when I had because I work in health care, I mean I work in orthopedics. Over yeah, so that's my profession. This is just a fun hobby, right? It's like I said earlier. I just kind of started it with the loose grip and kind of taking this stepping stone approach of you know how far can you go with a few hundred bucks of audio equipment. Right.

Speaker 1: 1:29:40

It's working out pretty cool as we sit in the basement across from Drake Park.

Speaker 4: 1:29:44

This has been to me, though, 100%. It's like you know how many places I've gone to eat, that I used to be somebody's house, that I went over and had a beer at. It's like you know that's part of the things that you would get in a place like this, so you won't get anywhere else.

Speaker 1: 1:29:58

Totally, this has been rad for me for sure. Yeah, that's cool man.

Speaker 4: 1:30:02

You want to beat me up on COVID at all, you know? Do you want to talk to me how terrible that was.

Speaker 1: 1:30:08

You know you mentioned it earlier and I talked with Jim a little bit about. It is like and I remember you making a comment similar to the one you said earlier at the Bow panel conference was, you know, ends up owning a face mask company during COVID. It's good for business and it sounds like an incredibly challenging season. At the same time, that sounds like an incredibly busy time in the context of everything else that was going on. It was gnarly.

Speaker 4: 1:30:38

I remember COVID hit, you know, and it's literally the time where we collect all of our orders for the next year and we didn't have a single order. And I've never seen that ever, you know not one, you know.

Speaker 4: 1:30:53

The emails went silent, everything was quiet. And Jim came up to me and he was like what do we do? And one of the things I've prided myself on all these years is that we are privately owned. We're debt free. You know, we, we made sure, you know. I looked at him and I said, you know, don't worry about it, we're fine. You know, like we can go another year. Let's just everybody keep doing their thing, we'll figure it out as we go.

Speaker 4: 1:31:18

And then, you know, a week or two went by and we started seeing like everybody was closing right, like you couldn't open unless you had masks, and you know, and a lot of the staff were coming up to me and saying, well, we should make masks. And I had this moral quandary like I don't want to play into this thing, you know, like I don't know, like I don't know what's going to happen, and it was tough for me. And then I realized what I didn't actually realize. Then they started to announce that, like, face coverings in general is all we need. And then I thought, ok, if we're going to do this thing, we're going to make sure that we donate as much in whatever we sell. And we held true to that to the end, I mean at the end of the whole thing. We donated close to five million bucks worth the masks more than the entire snow industry combined.

Speaker 4: 1:32:13

Yeah it was. You know over 500 agencies I think over 400 are listed on our website. You know we made sure it was a true one to one movement. We sold one. We gave one away Period. You know we supplied. You know all of Warm Springs and the tribes. We made sure all the school districts, the hospitals, copa, we gave them all the masks. You know we even. You know we had some big partners like REI and Dix and stuff that bought in and we made them. When they bought from us, we'd give them 25, 30000. Mass that they had to donate and we made sure it was like. This is a thing if we're going to do it, we're going to do it right. Yeah, it was rad. And at the same time we have like a 10 year stock of extra fabric that we were selling goggle covers for and we got to consume all this stock in a year that otherwise would end up in the landfill.

Speaker 4: 1:33:00

So it was it was super rad because we got to donate, you know, all this stuff and protect the landfill at the same time, which was rad, but man, it was tough. I remember my daughter was born in Covid.

Speaker 1: 1:33:14

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:33:15

And I was. You know I was at home for a bit but working 22 hour days. I mean it was day and night, you know. And you know my wife kept telling me, you know, like you need to slow it down a little bit, you know, but all I could care, all I cared about was all the workers. Yeah like we got to keep this thing going because we don't know what's going to happen tomorrow.

Speaker 1: 1:33:34

Right.

Speaker 4: 1:33:35

You know, and luckily we came out of it. Okay, I mean, I would say the you know, everybody came out of it as best they could, you know, and yeah, I mean, you know, hindsight is Crazy.

Speaker 1: 1:33:46

Time of crazy. Few years, man, and so many different ways. Yeah, my, our very first episode was of this podcast was I published on 4th of July 2021 with Dan McGarregal at Pine Mountain and Amy Andrews at Central Oregon Trail Alliance, and the whole theme was like hey, how's the kind of the outdoor retail business after Covid and you know, amy, how are the trails? Because they're getting pounded by. How many people have moved here and how many people are also just getting into mountain biking, because that was a crazy right. That was like a. That's an example of a outdoor industry sector that just went through massive demand.

Speaker 4: 1:34:31

Has anybody even done that study to know how many people moved here during Covid? It has to be astronaut.

Speaker 1: 1:34:36

Oh, I'm sure someone has that data, but yeah, I mean it just empirically. You could observe it right, I mean it was like it took me two times long to get to work and, you know, over a short period of time I felt like I never thought I would say it would take me 30 minutes to get across town?

Speaker 4: 1:34:51

Yeah, it has become the new norm.

Speaker 1: 1:34:54

Yeah so, but yeah it's. You know we're still and not to mention just kind of the geopolitical like ripple effect in so many different ways that came out of Covid and I think people are still, you know, trying to sort the relationship out with. You know it was a complicated time and, like the world's very complicated place right and it was rapid.

Speaker 4: 1:35:22

Yeah, we didn't have much time to think about what we were doing or how we were doing it or any of those things Totally yeah, and we say that sitting here in Bend Oregon right.

Speaker 1: 1:35:31

Where we're just like incredibly blessed beyond belief, man, and it should never go without being said.

Speaker 4: 1:35:38

I'll tell you that too is it took me five years or so For me to like really feel Bend was home. Yeah, and it's probably because I never left in the first five years. But I, you know my, the way I kind of think about home is when you leave somewhere and then you come back and you have this like breath of like oh man, I'm home.

Speaker 1: 1:35:58

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:35:59

And it took me a little bit to get that for Bend, you know, cause I maybe it's growing up in a big city, I have no idea. But now it's funny. It's like go back to LA or we go anywhere in the world for a trade show or whatever, and every time I get off a plane here I'm like, oh my God, that take a deep breath of clean, beautiful air. I look at the mountains and I'm like yeah, this is 100% home.

Speaker 1: 1:36:20

Yeah, yeah, it is man. We're very lucky Totally.

Speaker 4: 1:36:25

You know it's very lucky. Yeah, you know.

Speaker 1: 1:36:29

And I, yeah, I mean it, I have that and you'll. You know not to be that guy, but you'll have that I can just tell by the type of character you have like as your kids get older and start. You know it's been an interesting place for kids to grow up too, cause you know you only know what you know Totally and when you grow up at the, at the pinnacle of an area or at a, you know it requires a different, it's a different learning process, 100%. Then growing up in somewhere like you know, southern California, you know I inner city or super rural or anyway it's just everywhere is unique, totally.

Speaker 1: 1:37:10

There's so much upside to living here that takes I'm learning strategy and tact with how you help your kids understand that.

Speaker 4: 1:37:20

Which is which is one of the things I love about Bend lately is the growth of culture and community and diversity has been awesome. You know, and that's, that was the part I was probably a little bit worried about with my kids at first, you know, but now it's, it's getting better for sure and making sure that you know I want my kids to be worldly and see different places and understand there's different people, and that goes both ends of the spectrum, right From rural all the way to inner city and those kinds of things so we make sure to you know, put them in situations or see different.

Speaker 4: 1:37:50

You know people and cultures and those kinds of things. So I'm definitely happy on that front for Bend. You know, and just stoked every day, that this is a place where my kids can grow up. Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 4: 1:38:04

We're like, you know, like they get some of the things that I got when I was a little kid, like they can go down the street and play with their friends and it's a different type of play too, you know. It's like my son's talking about going mountain biking, you know, with his friends at a six years old, you know, when I was outside skateboarding, you know it's just different, you know but Brad.

Speaker 1: 1:38:21

Brad is right. Are you excited for this year? How many days of snowboarding to get in?

Speaker 4: 1:38:26

The last couple of years have not been great for me. I'll be honest, I think last year I got three, which is not very, very.

Speaker 1: 1:38:35

unlike me, I'm disappointed in that number.

Speaker 4: 1:38:37

Oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:38:37

I'm gonna challenge you to at least double that this year.

Speaker 4: 1:38:40

Well, I had actually set myself a goal for I want at least 15 to 20 this year. So you know.

Speaker 1: 1:38:47

I'd like to join you on one of those days.

Speaker 4: 1:38:49

Yeah, we should, you know, we're.

Speaker 1: 1:38:50

Can I go snowboard with you for a day?

Speaker 4: 1:38:52

Yeah, or can I go snowboard with you for?

Speaker 1: 1:38:53

a day. Yeah, let's do it.

Speaker 4: 1:38:56

Let's not go snowboard with Jim because he has a tendency to just for me. I'm a communal snowboarder. I love to like hit a jump ride, some power together, laugh, you know, that's my type of snowboarding. Yeah, I do feel lucky. You know, my son's old enough to snowboard now, so that's gonna get me up a lot more. And then, obviously, you know, making sure we're working with the new executive team to try to get the company out more. You know, to make sure, you know we can't forget that. That's why we all do this, right, you know. And so yes, I'm challenged, challenge accepted.

Speaker 1: 1:39:27

Yeah, that'll be fun. I think you hit on a lot of things right there. One I applaud you for like creating space for your company and your employees to take advantage of why we live here, right, I mean, isn't it?

Speaker 4: 1:39:44

It's not easy.

Speaker 1: 1:39:45

I'm sure.

Speaker 4: 1:39:46

We're trying to figure out the recipe between like play hard, work hard you know, like, really living up to that and, you know, making sure that I can own what I'm saying and making sure that the employees know it's like you know, I want people to go snowboard and I want people to go ski and enjoy why they, you know but then I also want them to come back to Blackstrap and be like, oh man, let's grind it out for a little bit so we can do those things.

Speaker 1: 1:40:10

Yeah, I bet. You find, though, that when people, when you give people those liberties, they come back motivated to work and jam. You know Like yeah, it's funny. You said you're a communal snowboarder. Like versus Jim, is Jim? Like there's no friends on a powder day, like just goes.

Speaker 4: 1:40:31

I mean, sometimes Jim can be good about it, but yes, he's a no friends on a powder day. He's like first line me. Don't follow me, because you will get stuck because I get greedy.

Speaker 1: 1:40:39

Where did he grew up? In Portland, yep, and so he, I'm guessing hold is Jim.

Speaker 4: 1:40:45

Jim is two years younger than me 37.

Speaker 1: 1:40:48

37, so I'm okay. So yeah, I'm just thinking about where he grew up and kind of that style. And if he grew up riding meadows and yeah, I mean, I get it. And then you grew up in Southern California, where did you go to, like, Bear Mountain, High Bear.

Speaker 4: 1:41:06

Yeah, and that would have been yeah If we would do the longer track, the longer trip.

Speaker 1: 1:41:11

So it's funny, because Mountain High and Big Bear, that's a lot more snowboard stop watch Yep. Everybody hits the feature, the trail. But there's something fun about that too, because it's like a skate park right. You start kind of building and riding on the energy that's created. I think that's probably.

Speaker 4: 1:41:32

I grew up skating too, and I think that's probably why, I just enjoy that. You know, like whenever it's funny, whenever I ride with Jim, I'm like all right, you go first, cause I like to like watch what he does and how he hits it and see if I can hit it different or hit it better or bigger, you know. And that's all part of it for me. And then laughing about it. You know Like.

Speaker 4: 1:41:50

I have a funny story too where I literally I forget all the details but I literally tomahawked in front of Jim, but it was like the worst you know, and Jim's like. I totally got it on film. I was like I laughed about it cause I was like that's what I want, you know I want you to see me eat it harder than everybody else.

Speaker 4: 1:42:06

And you know, and it's I think that's what brings me the most joy about snowboarding. You know that is that you can talk to your friends about, like, the awesome day you had and how the sick with the power was. And Bachelors is super unique to that right. Like, bachelors is pretty unique that you can like because it's so flowy and surfy that there's so many features and things to hit.

Speaker 1: 1:42:26

It's super true.

Speaker 4: 1:42:27

Yeah, that it actually adds to that whole effect, which is rad, you know, yeah yeah, I like the balance.

Speaker 1: 1:42:36

I remember my very first time going to Mount Baker with a friend of mine which was a very like if you weren't strapped on when you got off the chairlift, like you like, whether or not you saw them the rest of the day was your problem, you know. And it was like which I have come to really appreciate, cause I loved jam and just like charge, but I've also always loved the energy around, like sessioning a feature, or you know what the freaking most fun I've had snowboarding in the last like five years was was two years ago Pete Alport built the prequel up at Houdu.

Speaker 1: 1:43:16

And it was like I had an height, that like, like you know, low consequence, just fun snowboard park features in years, and like just that it felt like you were at escape jam, you know, like everybody was just it was so much fun but see, it was the community side.

Speaker 4: 1:43:32

It was a community side. Yeah, you're just watching everybody talk.

Speaker 1: 1:43:35

That's what I mean, like the energy that that gets.

Speaker 4: 1:43:38

It's funny. I'll go up and jam by myself and ride power right and I'll leave with a smile on my face. But, every time I'm in that more community driven, I leave saying to myself I need more of that Totally. And it's a different kind of addiction, and so, yeah, it's just. And then when you can mix the two together, it's like you know, the perfect marriage, for sure, you know.

Speaker 1: 1:44:02

so yeah, I'm definitely, I'm definitely on the community side. Yeah, yeah, we'll get some, at least a day in.

Speaker 4: 1:44:08

Yeah, I'm down, That'd be. It's on my, it's on my list 15 days or more.

Speaker 1: 1:44:15

Do you? I'm fired, do you do? I mean, do you ever do you guys go on like I don't know back country ski trips out to like three sisters? Yeah, do you guys do much stuff like that as a company.

Speaker 4: 1:44:30

Yeah, so we've gotten better actually. So during COVID we all, you know, we were all separated. We had problems getting together. So I actually bought four snowmobiles for the office.

Speaker 1: 1:44:40

Nice.

Speaker 4: 1:44:41

And yeah, actually from my.

Speaker 1: 1:44:42

What did you?

Speaker 4: 1:44:43

get 800 summits.

Speaker 1: 1:44:46

Yeah, we went ski dues. Huh, we did. Yeah, how come?

Speaker 4: 1:44:50

It's the only thing we could get at the time. You know I went. I don't even think any. I don't think Polaris was even an option at the time there was nothing on the market.

Speaker 4: 1:44:59

We went in, they had four left. We took all four so we could get out. And it's funny, I actually look at those pictures. It's the picture. It was the picture on my LinkedIn for a while. It was a year after COVID and my birthday, which always falls, you know, right during trade shows season, and Jim actually took me out in the snowmobiles and we just, you know, we went split boarding in the back country and he had some champagne and orange juice at the bottom.

Speaker 1: 1:45:23

And he had some.

Speaker 4: 1:45:24

It was rad. It was like one of my best memories.

Speaker 6: 1:45:26

That's right.

Speaker 4: 1:45:27

And it's yeah, so definitely more of that.

Speaker 6: 1:45:30

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:45:32

We're not pros on the snowmobiles we're pretty good.

Speaker 1: 1:45:34

I bought my first snowmobile from Cascade Motorsports in 2000. Wow, and it cost. It was an RMK 800. And it cost me like 6,500 bucks. I'm a lot back then it was a lot, but it was also, like you know, I needed a snowmobile for that winter and I had never owned one and really never ridden one. And I bought that thing in like December and went on a trip like the next week. So I took it up to Dutchman Flats to learn how to ride it at night oh, at night, during a storm, no, and like those things were not light.

Speaker 6: 1:46:08

No.

Speaker 1: 1:46:09

So when you got stuck, you were. It was a where I was up there till like three in the morning like learning how to ride it, undigging myself and at the same time, having some of the most fun I've ever had. Cause, like you know, at night with the headlight and you're just kind of, oh, it's so fun. Oh, dude, you can submarine, those things.

Speaker 4: 1:46:26

And yeah, I mean I'd say we're in a luckier position now because those new, the new ones. The snowmobiles are so light, oh yeah. We, you know, and Jim and I, have had some of the best days we've ever had. I bet. On some snowmobiles you know, last year we went out Sparks Lake and it was, you know, it was after that super crazy storm cycle where we got like four feet over five days and I remember, I'll never forget I was snorkeling that whole, that whole time. That thing, was sick.

Speaker 1: 1:46:53

Yeah, it's fun oh yeah, and it's tough.

Speaker 4: 1:46:55

It's actually tough to get off the snowmobile and get back to snowboarding, because it's so much fun. But then we started to realize oh man, get a couple of Mo Pro racks, put those snowboards on and you can get in places where people have never been.

Speaker 1: 1:47:08

Oh yeah, that's pretty rad too. Yeah, yeah, but we should definitely do that.

Speaker 4: 1:47:11

If you got a snowmobile, we should definitely get out on those this year too.

Speaker 1: 1:47:13

Yeah, I don't anymore it's.

Speaker 4: 1:47:16

I sold that thing and Well, if your wife lets you, you can come out on one of ours.

Speaker 1: 1:47:21

Oh, she'll encourage me to.

Speaker 4: 1:47:23

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:47:25

I try to borrow at least. Yeah, I'm so bad man, I just. It's like I should buy my own damn snowmobile, but one, they're pretty expensive. They're gnarly now and two like realistically, you know, like I could probably get out on that thing six times in a winter you know, yeah, so I went snowboarding only three, but we got on the snowmobiles of quite a few times last year.

Speaker 4: 1:47:48

So I would definitely want to invite you.

Speaker 1: 1:47:51

You should come out and hang glissoms yeah, I'd love to, that'd be fun. Yeah, I love that country skiing oh, it's so good.

Speaker 4: 1:47:56

And then Jim and I actually we love to go out and just trail ride and go to places we've never seen before, you know.

Speaker 1: 1:48:01

Nice.

Speaker 4: 1:48:02

Get stuck in some pow fields now and then.

Speaker 1: 1:48:05

We have a tradition, my daughter and I, we skid to the top of bachelor every Thanksgiving morning.

Speaker 4: 1:48:15

Oh wow, that's sick. That's a great. How was your daughter?

Speaker 1: 1:48:17

She's 14.

Speaker 4: 1:48:19

Oh sick.

Speaker 1: 1:48:20

So this will be year four. She started when she was 10.

Speaker 4: 1:48:22

How do you feel about the past situation for uphill this year?

Speaker 1: 1:48:27

I get it. You know, I mean I get it. I'll leave it at that you know Like it's a fine line.

Speaker 1: 1:48:36

you know that I walk with kind of my old mentality and when I came up in snowboarding and it was a little counterculture and kind of pushed against authority and at the same time understanding that like that's not necessarily the best attitude to have when you start thinking about overall what's best for people in terms of safety and protocols. And so it's that kind of push-pull and I think anybody that would say otherwise is probably full of it, you know, because I think everybody finds value in a little bit of like.

Speaker 4: 1:49:11

I mean, I would say the snowboard community has grown up in that sense and feel and I would say the vast majority feels the same way. And. I still think there's a little bit of counterculture in there, a little bit against the machine which I love, yeah, but on the same time, with enough to know, they understand why certain things are happening. I mean you know and why certain things have to happen to protect. You know those places for us in the future For sure.

Speaker 1: 1:49:35

Yeah, I absolutely get it. I'm very thankful for Mount Bachelor. It's provided. I mean, it's a big reason why we decided to like raise our kids here Totally, you know, is it because it offers it offers the opportunity for your kids to get, if it's something that fits within your family's lifestyle, reps right and like how do you get good at stuff?

Speaker 4: 1:50:03

You do it and you keep doing it Does your whole family snowboard.

Speaker 1: 1:50:06

Yeah, I mean they're all. They're all proficient in the mountains at this point, which was the goal right.

Speaker 1: 1:50:11

Like, and so my wife and I and she. She actually is from Southern California too Cool, so she was kind of late to the to snowboarding and kind of mountain lifestyle, though she did move here in 05. No, no, we got married in 05. She moved here and oh, maybe two, I don't know. A long time ago she, she kind of slowly kind of weaned into snowboarding and now and now goes because she doesn't want to get left behind. Yeah, or that was a motive. Now that the kids are older, some of them, like my daughter, still totally in. Yeah, and she rips.

Speaker 1: 1:50:48

But my son's now focusing on swim and my other sons my son swims too, yeah. But my, that's her ad. Well, we'll have to talk swim. They have that. My goal is always while they're young, they get to learn a skill set because they don't have as much you know. Choice in the matter Right, They'll always have it, whether or not they want to keep doing it or not they know how to get around in the mountains.

Speaker 4: 1:51:14

Yeah, and that that's a skill set and even though, even though it kind of tapers off and they might not go up as much, they'll come back.

Speaker 1: 1:51:21

They'll come back for sure, and then they'll want to bring their kids for sure, for sure. And it's a, you know, I mean learning how to operate, and you know, and I've learned a lot of this from a lot of people that have moved here and don't know how to do that stuff, and I just never realized it because I've always lived in the mountains my whole life, and you know, and like it is a skill set, though.

Speaker 4: 1:51:41

I hope you don't mind, I'm going to steal that tradition. I'm going to get my kids the skin up the mountain with you, you should come with us.

Speaker 1: 1:51:47

I mean, if that's an, I'm not here this Thanksgiving but I'm going to take note for next.

Speaker 4: 1:51:52

That's a great tradition.

Speaker 1: 1:51:53

It's fun, it's phenomenal.

Speaker 4: 1:51:54

Yeah, my wife always wants us to go on a hike, but I'm going to say switch it to you know, come skin them out with me, get a good grill workout, and it doesn't need.

Speaker 1: 1:52:00

You know. There's been years where maybe two years ago we could only get so high because it was just pretty briny and low, low snow and it gets dangerous up there too high, you know. Oh yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:52:13

I know, Um I wanted to get that, but last year it was great. Oh yeah, last year it was phenomenal. There was some good coverage, for sure. Yeah, I wonder what it's doing up there right now. Hopefully it's. I thought it was going to be cold enough this week.

Speaker 1: 1:52:23

So yeah, I don't know, I, uh, I have an interesting relationship with forecast anymore. I almost just show up and get what I get and try to make the best of it. You and Jim.

Speaker 4: 1:52:35

you and Jim are the yeah, so I got to get. I suck at that. I got to get on that same approach. Jim says that to me all the time. It's like don't look, we're going today. Yeah, you're going to get what you're going to get he's doing the same thing to me, yeah. You know, and it's, it's hard for me. I'm like, oh, it's not a pow day, but it's like whatever you know.

Speaker 1: 1:52:52

Well.

Speaker 4: 1:52:53

I, I. I've come to that conclusion. I think it's just because my days are limited. You, know.

Speaker 1: 1:52:55

Yeah, I totally get that and and quite honestly, mine are too. I mean, I, prior to this last couple of years, I was full on weekend warrior.

Speaker 4: 1:53:04

No way.

Speaker 1: 1:53:04

Um, now I get Mondays off, so I try to sneak up there on Mondays, Um, but I've also learned that you know I get bitter if my expectations aren't met, especially in the mountains it's funny.

Speaker 4: 1:53:17

It's funny to say that I get the same way.

Speaker 1: 1:53:20

Yeah, it bums me out so if I go up there kind of like, well, I don't know, I can, you know like it's just. I end up, you know, walking away from it less in my head.

Speaker 4: 1:53:31

Yeah, and that's early season too, like it can be, you know, even on a not pow day, yeah, and you can have a good time Totally Always oh yeah, yeah, we did.

Speaker 1: 1:53:40

Uh, we'll have to go um pow surfing. Oh, have you ever ridden an asthma, or uh? Yeah, I want to do that. It's so fun, it's funny.

Speaker 4: 1:53:49

I actually. I feel very fortunate and hyped. So my neighbor I live out in Sun River- Nice. I've lived next to him for 10 years, had no idea, but apparently he worked for uh, nike and Patagonia back in the day and he's like, uh, he saw him. He teaching my son at a snowboard in our front yard.

Speaker 4: 1:54:08

We got a little skip of snow and I was pushing him around and he's like, he's like, you know, I got some old snowboards. Do you want to come over and check them out? And I was like sure, and no shit, he had, uh, an original Burton shaped by Jake. He had uh hit another Burton shaped by Jake and uh, his first employee. And then he had an original Sims. Um, I'll show you a picture here. It's rad, and he sold me the whole set.

Speaker 1: 1:54:36

You got to be kidding me.

Speaker 4: 1:54:37

No, it was like the biggest. It was like the biggest come up I've ever seen.

Speaker 1: 1:54:41

Dude, you'll have to send me that photo so I can um, I can share it with people, Cause people are going to want to see that.

Speaker 4: 1:54:48

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:54:49

Oh my gosh. Yeah, so it's an old Burton performer. Two performers one with by means, one without Yep, and then an original an original elite and that was from the first year when they went to Austria.

Speaker 4: 1:55:01

So in the bottom right corner it says uh, shaped in Austria, first year.

Speaker 1: 1:55:06

Your neighbor had these in his garage, yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:55:08

Literally all dusty and you know what's even crazy, you don't see him there. He has all the original bindings, so they're like I can't even put them on the boards, they're so brittle, holy.

Speaker 1: 1:55:17

Moses, bro what I mean those are like, especially that one on the right with the rubber like uh uh what was uh water ski bindings? Yep, I think that was the one. That's incredible yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:55:28

And if you look, really I don't remember, is it? What was Andy's last name? That works for Jake Coglin, or whatever it was like his first employee literally says shaped by Andy Coglin and Jake Jake Burton carpenter, and it's got a registration number and it says board. I think he was numbering as boards in the beginning. Yeah, it's board number 2322. It's pretty sick. That's beyond sick.

Speaker 1: 1:55:52

That's that needs to find. You need that that better be at the midway. It is I. I saw that.

Speaker 4: 1:55:56

I thought art pieces for my office were 100%.

Speaker 1: 1:55:59

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:56:01

And then the original Sims board, which was crazy. It's incredible. And then he even threw in there a K2 legend. Yeah, you should see this thing. It's literally got aluminum foil on the outside of the top sheet. You can't even write it. He said he tried to write it one time and it was unwriteable. So yeah, it's snowboard history is fun.

Speaker 1: 1:56:19

I mean, I've been this lat. The last podcast we did was on power surfing and I got. I got to and the research in that was tons of fun because I got in touch with this guy that runs a. Do you want me?

Speaker 4: 1:56:30

to take a better picture than the one I'm sending you.

Speaker 1: 1:56:31

Whatever, no, I mean yeah, that'll that people get the idea. But but just the, the, the Sherman poppins of the world, and then and the old, the guys that like yeah, and it's funny to see. The thing I love about power surfing is that it's just like it's taking it back to like that super simple, so enjoyable process of just like making powder turns.

Speaker 4: 1:56:55

You know, originally, when I got you know because I know James pretty well from snow planks. I have two of his original not cut edge wood sides and then he gave me the cut edge. No metal edges, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:57:07

And.

Speaker 4: 1:57:07

I remember I had a great time because it brought me back to like how it felt Totally. You know, ride pow like kind of uninhibited Yep and you know who you know I was going to tell you who has the best snowboard collection I've ever seen in this town. Let me guess.

Speaker 1: 1:57:21

Yeah, uh, because there's some old snowboard heads here. There is, uh, I mean.

Speaker 5: 1:57:28

I think I'm going to be.

Speaker 1: 1:57:29

I think I'm going to be. I think I'm going to be going to be. I mean, I bet I can get, like I bet. Give me a few guesses, okay, um, gary Braceland.

Speaker 4: 1:57:47

Yeah, he's number one for sure Is he? Yeah, it's, he's actually. He told me the other day that he's.

Speaker 1: 1:57:52

That's hilarious.

Speaker 4: 1:57:52

He's hiring a OSU Cascades student to come and actually catalog.

Speaker 1: 1:57:58

Holy Moses. Yeah, I may have shared this story before, but when I was 13 years old, I got a job. I grew up in quarterly in Idaho and I got a job at what at the time, was called the shred shed, which was like the, the skate and snowboard store, and one of the brands that we carried was Moro, and Gary was our sales rep.

Speaker 4: 1:58:22

That's funny.

Speaker 1: 1:58:23

And that's 30 years ago, yeah, and I remember him coming in with, like you know, and just given clinic demos on, you know, the, the Moro spoon, nose or revert or whatever board of the day. You know, like it's so long ago and yet that it's such a, you know it's funny, like I, the snow, the outdoors, like mountains, like culture, whether it's ski or snowboarder, it, just once it becomes part of you, it's always part of you. You know it's such a unique community.

Speaker 4: 1:58:59

Oh, man, every, every and.

Speaker 1: 1:59:00

I missed it, man, I, I, I walked away from it for a long time to to try to like establish this other way of living here. Totally Right, and more the more and more I get to reconnect with people that are in it or or just spend time with old friends that still do it Right.

Speaker 4: 1:59:18

It's like damn I, I missed this. If you can balance the two, yeah, it's the perfect place to be for sure. You know you get the snow. The snow like snowboard and ski community is welcoming. There's like so much. All of them are. Everyone I meet is passionate and it's hard to find that anywhere else.

Speaker 4: 1:59:37

I mean every time we go back to a trade show, it's like you see, you haven't seen people in a year, I haven't said one word to you in a year, and it's like high fives and hugs and like you know, it's like you were just talking yesterday and it's hard it's been hard for me at least to find that anywhere else.

Speaker 1: 1:59:53

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:59:53

To feel as welcome as you do in that community and culture, for sure.

Speaker 1: 1:59:57

Yeah, and it's not. You know it's. It's a similar story you hear from a lot of people. I mean Jim talked about it. It's like so much of his life has has has been the result of his relationship with riding a snowboard.

Speaker 4: 2:00:11

I mean the thing I got to give up to Jim is, I mean he's. He's probably going to be one of those people that can say that he's. His whole life has been surrounded by snowboarding, and that's.

Speaker 1: 2:00:24

That's incredible, it's crazy, you know, because I know.

Speaker 4: 2:00:27

It's. It's hard to like keep the passion for that long too.

Speaker 1: 2:00:29

What I love about that is it means, you know, because I don't know what Jim's personal like success with snowboarding was, other than he clearly fell in love with it a long time ago. I know a lot of guys who fell in love with it a long time ago and and had enough talent level to actually turn it into a job and that changed their relationship with it Right and some of those both Right, yeah, I mean a lot of times, though, you know, once you've it can you know, like not all, but some of them don't snowboard that much anymore.

Speaker 1: 2:01:05

You know, and and I guess the point I'm making is like it's, it's rad to see, and it goes back to playing the long game with something which is like someone who, like just, was passionate about the act of snowboarding, and how can you make this a part of your life? Stretched out over, a life becomes a pretty phenomenal thing, you know. I think.

Speaker 4: 2:01:24

I think that's part of what we're trying to identify now, even as a company.

Speaker 6: 2:01:28

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 2:01:28

That motto is we we're we're a face mask apparel manufacturer, but we still love snowboarding.

Speaker 1: 2:01:36

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 2:01:37

We can't let the one overweigh the other you know, and it's true, I mean Randy actually said that to me the other day. He's like you're going to get the best out of me right after I ride my board. You know, and it's so, many of the people that are at our office are that same way. That's cool, you know they'll be the most creative and I want to make sure we don't miss that. And again, we have a lot of people that don't ski in snow war two right.

Speaker 4: 2:02:01

We have some in the community that ride their bikes, or we want to make sure we inspire them all to do whatever they love, but ultimately snowboardings will always be that thing for me. Yeah, me too, man Sometimes fly fishing depends on how I'm feeling on the day.

Speaker 1: 2:02:18

Is fishing something you grew up doing or did you fall in love with it up here?

Speaker 4: 2:02:22

No, so I did grow up doing a little bit of fishing, but it was the same thing. It's funny, my brain is always going to 1,000 miles an hour and You're a good.

Speaker 1: 2:02:33

I like you.

Speaker 4: 2:02:33

You're a good dude, and snowboarding and fishing, surprisingly, were the two things that I could like turn off my brain. I don't know, and again I don't know what it was about fishing, but it did the same thing. You know, river therapy or whatever. I mean just standing in the water and or just being outside, I don't know. I mean yesterday. I think I just love being in the outdoors. Yesterday I literally looked at my wife and I was like we got to go outside because it was raining and I took my kids, I put them in my I have a camper on the back of my tundra and I drove them up to the woods in Mount Bachelor and we camped out for the night in the snow and watched the movie in the camper and brought them back the next day and I was fully recharged.

Speaker 4: 2:03:13

You know, and I just think I don't know, man being in the woods just recharges me and so, but fishing, specifically, shuts my brain off, and snowboarding shuts my brain off. Snowmobiling doesn't shut my brain off. I'll literally be driving 70 in POW and thinking about something, about going on at work, and so I don't know.

Speaker 1: 2:03:30

That's interesting, man. Yeah, I don't know. I'm trying to think of the commonalities. I mean, there's a rhythm and a style to you know, riding a snowboard and casting a flyer on right and like what.

Speaker 4: 2:03:44

but I mean, now that you say it, like you know, like I close my eyes and I think about it and it's like it's funny, when I'm snowboarding and I'm riding in POW, I like I can like feel myself like kind of bouncing up in the snow and like lifting my nose up and, like you know, like I'm concentrating on all the feeling you know like I'm feeling my toe edge and my heel edge and it's almost like the world slows down and I can feel everything. It's weird to explain. I don't know.

Speaker 4: 2:04:11

Yeah, they both require presence and fly fishing does the same exact thing, for me Like I'm like listening to the water and I'm making sure my cast is good and I'm like feeling my fly line. Maybe it's the same thing, I don't know.

Speaker 1: 2:04:23

I can't nail it, you know, but it does.

Speaker 4: 2:04:25

Yeah, that's cool, that's really cool, you know what's funny is I also like fishing with other people you know it's. You know I can go by myself and have a good time, but whenever I have somebody that I get to fish with and we get high fives, it's always the most fun for me. So I don't know if it's part of that too.

Speaker 1: 2:04:40

Yeah, fishing is something I grew up doing a ton and as an adult I have done less and less over the years and it's interesting.

Speaker 4: 2:04:49

You gotta come fishing with Jim and I. It's funny Jim just got into fishing.

Speaker 1: 2:04:52

Well, he was up on the. When I talked to him he was on the John Day.

Speaker 4: 2:04:55

Yeah, and it took me 14 years of telling him he would love it before he finally got into it.

Speaker 1: 2:05:02

And now he's and he's actually yeah now in many cases he's better fish with them than me. Yeah, I'm wondering if that's part of my concern is because, quite honestly, I don't have any more bandwidth to get into anything else. And this, that's the one thing about this town, man. You have to choose, most people. Some people have the luxury of fitting it all in, but I would encourage most people to like set boundaries, otherwise you don't end up good at anything and frustrated cause there's just too many options. Oh yeah, you're a hundred percent right.

Speaker 4: 2:05:36

I rode my mountain bike twice this year. And I had to consciously tell myself, cause every time I'm like I wanna go fishing instead, Like I have to, and so I started to realize, like I just gotta pick the things that I really enjoy and just stick with them.

Speaker 1: 2:05:48

I agree.

Speaker 4: 2:05:50

I agree with you on that Cause there's so many things that you can do, but you know, what I learned about fishing, too is my family likes to camp. They like to go out in the woods and fish. As long as we're by water, I can throw out a line.

Speaker 1: 2:05:59

Totally so. It's like a win-win for me. Yeah, I wanna talk to you about. I got some ideas on some new long sleeve water shirts for you. Cool, yeah, I'm down.

Speaker 4: 2:06:13

Yeah, you'd like our new product. Guy too, is super smart.

Speaker 1: 2:06:16

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 2:06:17

Jason Valdez from. He was the guy that took hydroflash outside the bottle.

Speaker 1: 2:06:22

So all the things you see, oh, like soft goods and stuff. Yeah, backpacks and coolers and plates and bowls. Oh wow, he's working with you now.

Speaker 4: 2:06:28

Yeah, so he started he's month three.

Speaker 1: 2:06:32

No way.

Speaker 4: 2:06:33

Yeah, and I remember the first he was like we're gonna fly to LA and I wanna meet your factory and all that. And the first meeting we had was with the founder of Hurley.

Speaker 1: 2:06:45

No way.

Speaker 4: 2:06:45

Yeah, it was in his Rolodex because he grew up working at. He worked at Hurley. And then the second meeting was with the founder of Rourke. Steve, and it's like oh man, this guy has a pretty hefty Rolodex. That's sick. But yeah it was. And, man, I remember we sat down with those guys for hours and they're like the stories you hear.

Speaker 5: 2:07:07

Oh man.

Speaker 4: 2:07:08

It's crazy.

Speaker 1: 2:07:09

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 2:07:10

I learned a lot in six hours and I remember I left the meeting the Hurley one in particular, where he looked at me and he looked at Jason and he goes yeah, this guy knows his shit, it's good. And I was like cool, I've just been validated by a long-term industry vet that built some crazy shit and that didn't feel pretty good.

Speaker 1: 2:07:32

Yeah, it should. What a trip, man.

Speaker 4: 2:07:34

Yeah it was, and it's funny. Everything I've learned is just by making mistakes and just doing it.

Speaker 1: 2:07:40

Well, that's, I mean people, I hope understand that that's how life works right, like you learn how to think critically in school and a certain skill set, but then you hone that in over the rest of your life. Yeah.

Speaker 4: 2:07:54

Yeah, I tell everybody at the office every day. I'm like let's break some shit today.

Speaker 1: 2:07:59

Totally, man. That's how you learn.

Speaker 4: 2:08:01

Yeah, and they were like, well, what if, like, we go out of business or something? I'm like no, we're never gonna break something that bad.

Speaker 1: 2:08:06

So, like, test the waters break it and we'll figure it out. It's such a smart way to go about innovation. Yeah, that's an interesting. That kind of Southern California surf culture and like has a lot of similarities, is kind of the mountain culture and then a lot of differences too, you know.

Speaker 4: 2:08:26

I would say it's very. I mean, I grew up surfing and that. Huntington Beach was my stopping grounds and a few of my friends that I still talk to today. It was the same feeling for me, like we would surf together. The community was always together and then. But you know, the thing I noticed is, you know, when all the like, non, like you know, pack, sons and zoom, like all these shops, started moving in and the brand started selling off early on.

Speaker 4: 2:08:51

I started to notice the community kind of went with them in many ways.

Speaker 1: 2:08:54

It was weird yeah, like diluted a little.

Speaker 4: 2:08:57

Diluted and like I don't wanna surf anymore, I'm gonna skate or I'm gonna go road biking or whatever. Interesting, you know, and it was different. It wasn't like, you know, the snowboard community and SKU community in general, they're like I don't give a shit what the industry is doing, Like this is what I am a snowboarder, I'm a skier and it's gonna. I'm gonna hold on to it and the surf industry kind of you know, outside of the OGs was. It was very, yeah, diluted and kind of beaten down. They were tired. That's interesting.

Speaker 1: 2:09:26

I wonder if it has to do, and I talked to Yamada about this on the last episode I think he talked about. You know, there's a different mentality in the ocean because there's a lot of people competing for a limited resource, which is the wave right 100% and that can. I think that can start to and understandably so, wear on people that aren't you know, getting yeah, you took my away.

Speaker 4: 2:09:50

Yeah, I only get bought, or yeah?

Speaker 1: 2:09:52

It's a different environment to surround yourself in.

Speaker 4: 2:09:55

I don't know, but the chair lifts the same way, you know like bachelor gets tracked out and hour. That's true and you kind of feel the same way. You know that's true.

Speaker 1: 2:10:04

You know, I don't know I. That's one thing he loves about and he always makes such a good point about the river wave. Do you ever surf that thing? I don't. No, is that you know? It's a, even though it's still a similar act of surfing, it's a very different experience because it's one resource that a lot of people kind of agree to, each chair by getting in line, and therefore it creates more of an expectation of if you wait your chance, you get a turn and you, you know, and it just creates a more welcoming environment.

Speaker 4: 2:10:41

I mean it makes sense, cause you know you're going to get a chance.

Speaker 1: 2:10:42

You know you're going to get a chance. The waves not going to change. The waves not going to change. Yeah, I just wonder.

Speaker 4: 2:10:46

I've never been. I need to go down there and just sit and listen Like are they cheering on everybody Totally. Oh yeah, that's cute. I took my kids down.

Speaker 1: 2:10:54

That's like our favorite thing to do now as a family is I'll just go down and either go on a paddle or read, Cause I'm I don't know. I want to go down and try the wave again, but my ego has gotten in the way because I'm so bad at it and I've tried so many times.

Speaker 4: 2:11:11

Oh, it's tough. You know I haven't done that, but you know I grew up surfing in mind. I'm not like a great, but I could like get up on the wave, I could stand, I could go. And we went as a company once and we did it at the flow rider machine.

Speaker 3: 2:11:22

So your concept.

Speaker 4: 2:11:24

Damn dude, it is not the same. That way pushing on your feet. You know, and you know, I remember Jim couldn't even stand on a board, and so I've looked at that wave and I was like, yeah, I don't. You know, I'm too old for this shit to learn something new.

Speaker 1: 2:11:39

There's a guy, my friend Chip, who was on here and he used the analogy that it's. It's not surfing a wave, you're on a skateboard, on a conveyor belt, riding a bump.

Speaker 5: 2:11:50

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:11:51

And if you think about it that way, it kind of like I'm like, oh yeah, I can imagine what that feels like You'd be way more front foot heavy kind of than on a wave right and like I think that's part of the problem is, I always want to go back for the heavy.

Speaker 4: 2:12:03

You want to surf it yeah?

Speaker 1: 2:12:04

And I don't think you surf it. That's the problem, cause I always fall off the back.

Speaker 4: 2:12:08

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:12:08

Yeah, but.

Speaker 4: 2:12:10

I'm also yeah, when we were doing the flow rider, I think that was part of the problem, Like go out to like the last session, and I could stand up and I was like, oh, I think I'm getting it.

Speaker 1: 2:12:17

But, again.

Speaker 4: 2:12:17

If I think about it now, it was maybe more front foot heavy, which is abnormal for me, totally man.

Speaker 1: 2:12:24

You know, Totally, that's funny. All right, bro Cool. We're doing this thing now where I take these episodes and I post the original, but then I also am doing what's called the short. So like. I'll take out what I think is kind of the best parts of this Cause. Not everybody likes listening to two hours audio. Some people like 20 minutes. So, it's kind of a cool way to try to the short.

Speaker 4: 2:12:48

Yeah. Yeah. I like it. It's good, it's good marketing.

Speaker 1: 2:12:52

Try to increase your content without doing twice the amount of work.

Speaker 4: 2:12:57

That's actually really good actually, by the way, that's a good marketing.

Speaker 1: 2:13:00

So we'll see how it works.

Speaker 4: 2:13:02

But hopefully I gave you some decent content.

Speaker 1: 2:13:04

This has been a blast yeah. Thanks for your time, man it's been fun. I look forward to making power turns with you. Yes, you can hold me too. And then doing a little early morning skin yes, and anytime, doesn't have to be Thanksgiving there.

Speaker 4: 2:13:18

As long as you hold us up to the snowmobile too, it'll be good.

Speaker 1: 2:13:21

I would love that. That'll be fun.

Speaker 4: 2:13:23

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:13:25

Cool man, I'm proud of you. I don't even know you that well, but I really respect what you've done and what you're building and the reason you're doing it. I appreciate that it's very authentic. And it's like this type of stuff is what makes where we live so rad.

Speaker 4: 2:13:41

And I appreciate you for saying that. Yeah, that's cool, yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:13:43

All right man, Thanks, Abe. Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 5: 2:13:48

I think the first time I heard of it was when I moved back, just getting up to the mountain and just seeing it all over people in the lift line and I was just struck by curiosity as to what is this? What is this BS logo? Why is it everywhere? And then, upon some further discovery, I learned that it was an independently owned company based here in Bend. Abe and Jim have done a great job of building the business to get it to where it is, and when I met with them, my thoughts on what they've done and what they've accomplished is that they had they had a very transactional relationship with the customer, so it was really just based on the consumer needing to have that product.

Speaker 5: 2:14:46

There wasn't really a lot of much of an emotional connection going on with the brand, and that's really what I've been focusing my efforts on since I've been here is building a brand platform.

Speaker 5: 2:15:03

I like to say that brands are a lot like people and brands have personalities, so I've just been working really hard to infuse a personality and a vibe behind this brand that people can relate to and connect to and feel like it's something that they can be part of, so that it's more meaningful than just I need a bella clava. It's something that people can feel like they wanna be a part of now. I've enjoyed working for Abe a lot. I mean, it's not, you know, what we're doing right now isn't always easy and there isn't always a clear path, but we're, at the same time, we're all extremely aligned with the vision of where we wanna take this brand. The bigger long-term vision that I'm focused on and we all are, for that matter is that we're positioning Blackstrap to be perceived as a mountain lifestyle brand. So we're always gonna stay true to the product categories that got us to where we are. We're never gonna lose our stronghold on that and it'll always be a priority for us.

Speaker 5: 2:16:17

But the end goal, you know, in five years I will I see us being a prominent mountain lifestyle brand, that's, you know, relevant in all seasons. So yeah, I'm Randy Torkum, the vice president of Brandon Marketing at Blackstrap.

Speaker 5: 2:16:37

I've been working in the industry for almost over 25 years now, and some of my more prominent roles were with DeKine from 2000 to 2010, where I was the snow marketing manager, and from there I was recruited to go work for Burton and moved out to Vermont and was with Burton for eight years and held a handful of various marketing roles there, the last one being vice president of brand marketing, which I was doing that for two years. So I've been doing this for quite some time.

Speaker 3: 2:17:23

I believe it was 2010. They came into the shop we were kind of getting full ready for the mountain to open for the winter season. They brought in their first products were a neck tube and a bandana and basically just said you know, we're a local company, we've got this new product, we really think it do well in your store. At the time, since we had already done the buying for that season, I was fully stopped, you know, with other products in that kind of similar category. So it was a little skeptical and not needing really to add more product. But I went ahead and bought like a dozen, literally like a dozen of them and they were so excited to get the order and brought them in. I think they actually had them with them and just left them with us. We paid them for them as the story kind of grew and the employees were excited about that it was a local brand, excited for those guys to get started, you know. Then we'd order another dozen, I think by the end of the season maybe we sold roughly a hundred units, you know, as, again, we already had other products kind of in that category. But then, as the years have moved on, of course Blackstrap has pretty much taken over that entire category for a store. Honestly, I think a lot of it is Abe and Jim. When they first started out, they just had such great energy about the brand. They were very excited about it. They did a really good job as far as branding or creating the brand. So in the beginning they had sunglasses and they had beanies, plus, you know, the face masks and products like that. So, and the fact that it's a great product, especially for being a performance fabric it works great on the mountain.

Speaker 3: 2:19:04

People do love the story. They've come into the store all the time, so all my employees know them on a first name basis. A lot of their brand ambassadors, their customer service people from Blackstrap come into the store to deliver product. So it's a because they're in town. It makes it easy to tell the story and people get excited about that and we share that.

Speaker 3: 2:19:26

Almost every time, literally, we sell one of their products. It's very unique and that's part of the story that we share with people is to know that it's made in the US. People really gravitate towards items like that and a lot of the ski industry is based out of Europe, so obviously we have a lot of stuff being made in Europe and then also, obviously, a lot of the brands are coming out of China and it needs you different areas as far as imports. So it is nice Again, it's just that full circumference of that story being local. So we've been to their shop, we've seen their growth, so it's just exciting to be able to kind of share their story and their journey. And I think the American dream was what he's built.

Speaker 5: 2:20:09

No doubt, like the last year and a half for us has no doubt been the wildest part of it, cause it's like I think it's just the people, like we have more people now involved with it than we ever have and, like in the past, it's for the most part like there's been amazing people like top to bottom, left to right of last 13 years, but like at the end of the day, if the shit hit the fan, like Abe and I were the ones we would figure it out and it wasn't like held on anybody you know. But now it's like we're spread wider, we've got awesome people in the right places, and like it's a whole different chapter. Like I just know he has like a really like a professional lens about things, but it's also like, again, like he's the one that has always like, like I said, it's the people right. Like he's always about like the people that are involved, that are contributing to this thing, and like he I know that he likes that I'm involved, cause, like snow is just like my thing. Like I can do a lot of things, like I can market a lot of shit, but like I really want a snowboard, I really want to be a part of it and I really want to like do that industry stuff, which is like what I'm really doing now, and like now we've got this team around us that are like professionals in their lane and he's getting to, like Abe's really getting to focus on like this bigger picture stuff. So we don't do it perfectly, but like we legitimately have focused on being a brand for everybody.

Speaker 5: 2:21:45

Like the first time a kid goes to ski school now especially like they have to wear a helmet.

Speaker 5: 2:21:51

It doesn't matter if they're skiing or snowboarding, they have to wear a helmet. And if they're going to wear a helmet, it's going to be cold, they're going to need a face mask, and if their face mask sucks and it's all bunched up in their helmet and all that stuff and they have a shitty time, like they're going to be bummed, and so like we start there and then all the way to like my favorite consumer which is fricking dads and moms, like they wear it too, cause we make a nice clean, black, simple, functional thing. And then in the middle we have like kind of everybody right, like we sponsor like 50 different park crews in North America, like the coolest dudes on the hill, the baddest riders on the hill, like all that, and we sponsor ski instructors and it's just a product that like again, like no matter how like down you are hitting rails, like at Jpeak, or you're riding like big mountains in like wherever crystal, or you're at ski school in Mammoth, like we.

Speaker 5: 2:22:54

You'll find our things at those places and I think like that ethos is like always been a big focus for us, that it's like we want to provide stuff for everybody that's on hill, cause at the end of the day, like like it or hate it, like skiing probably at this point wouldn't like be thriving like it is without snowboarding and snowboarding just the same.

Speaker 2: 2:23:18

I'll remember after work mom would call in all of us. You could hear her singing for country mile. Now little brother has gone on, I'll join him in a song. I'm gonna join the family circle at the town.

Speaker 1: 2:23:37

Hey, thanks for listening to Bend Magazine's A Circling Podcast. Make sure to visit bendmagazinecom and learn about all the outdoor adventures in our area, as well as upcoming featured community events, local artist profiles, our dining guide and much more. Our theme song was written by Carl Perkins and performed by Aaron Colbaker and Dr Aaron Zerflue of the errands. We love mail, so please send us comments, questions or art to the Circling Podcast at bendmagazinecom. Support the Circling Podcast by becoming a member on Patreon at patreoncom. Forward, slash the Circling Podcast and learn how your financial contribution will help support local nonprofits while supporting local podcasting. Follow us on Instagram at the Circling Podcast to learn more about past, current and upcoming episodes. Please subscribe to the Circling Podcast and all major podcast platforms and leave us a review. It really does help.

Speaker 1: 2:24:41

I'd like to say a special thank you to all of those who participated in the making of this episode. It wouldn't be the same without your contribution and I appreciate your trust. Visit Blackstrap at bsbrandcom or swing into one of the many local retail stores that carry their goods and get ready for winter. It's right around the corner. Don't forget to stay tuned after the show credits for Abe's contribution to the Circling Podcast community art project and visit markjamniccom to learn more about subliminal story art embedded with me. Lastly, if you know someone who you think would enjoy today's episode, please share it with them today. Hey, thanks for your time. Central Oregon, get outside. We'll see you out there and remember the health of our community relies on us All right, so on the subliminal story art, community art project canvas you have written I gotta turn this here. We all can contribute to the success of ourselves and others. Expand on that a little bit.

Speaker 4: 2:25:59

I think as long as everybody has the mindset that there's growth and you can contribute to make yourself either a better person, smarter, more professional, whatever it is, and you have the same mindset to do that for others, the community will be a powerful one.

Speaker 1: 2:26:17

I love that man.