The Best of episode #43 with Abe Shehadeh and BlackStrap Industries
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Story Booth: https://storyboothexperience.com/#intro
Remember, the health of our community, relies on us!
The Best of episode #43 with Abe Shehadeh and BlackStrap Industries
The Circling Podcast is proud to be in partnership with Bend Magazine. Claim your five-dollar annual subscription when you visit www.bendmagazine.com and enter promo code: PODCAST at checkout. Your subscription includes 6 issues of our regions top publication celebrating mountain culture, and four bonus issues of Bend Home and Design, the leading home and building design magazine in Central Oregon.
Support The Circling Podcast:
Email us at: thecirclingpodcast@bendmagazine.com
Join the Circling membership: patreon.com/Thecirclingpodcast
Follow us on Instagram @thecirclingpodcast @bendmagazine
Cover Song by: @theerinsmusic on Instagram
Bend Magazine. Remember to enter promo code: Podcast at checkout for your five-dollar annual subscription. https://bendmagazine.com.
BOSS Sports Performance: https://www.bosssportsperformance.com
Back Porch Coffee: https://www.backporchcoffeeroasters.com
Story Booth: https://storyboothexperience.com/#intro
Remember, the health of our community, relies on us!
It was funny. You told me about this podcast and then I started listening to all of them. You know which is rad? I mean it's cool. I really think the community here needs something like this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, one of my favorite things about doing this has been the diverse people that have sat down at these mics, you know, and this show is kind of defined itself and turning into it's like a storytelling show of central Oregon culture by the people that are doing cool stuff here, whether it's brand and business founders or owners or nonprofit kind of leaders or just individuals. You know what they're previous. It's really fun. I appreciate you being here. I also. I don't think you say this enough, but I very much appreciate all the people that have participated in this and then also listen to it, because it's growing, it's getting some traction and now that we've partnered with the magazine, it's been fun having a studio and a place to come and, just, you know, it's fun starting a project and letting it kind of define itself.
Speaker 1:I think it's cool. Just it's like a time capsule too right?
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:You know, you kind of record people who are in Bend now or were in Bend, or people are moving to Bend. You kind of capture the community in like you know microchasm of like how it's changing too, which is super rad.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, so you can, like people can, go back and listen to. You know the trials and tribulations of all the people that are moving here and the difference is how they you know how that has affected them in the community moving on too, which is super rad.
Speaker 2:You just described part of the reason why I started. It was as a resource right For either people that have been here, like you and I, for a while, or people who have moved here. Last year, going back through the catalog of episodes, there's different people that kind of fill in the gaps from all that timeline, from you know, back in the dude, back in the 60s, all the way to present, and that's that's super fun. So it is. It has turned in a little bit of a yeah, a central Oregon cultural time capsule that people can tap into. I like that. I like that a lot.
Speaker 1:And again it's good to capture that. You know I moved, I moved here because, primarily because of the community, you know, and then, I was. I have this saying, I say about everybody it's like if you're moving to Ben right, leave all the bad stuff behind and bring all the good stuff with you, so we can, like you know, build this thing up, you know so totally it's.
Speaker 1:You know it's changing. There's a lot of things good, some things bad, obviously, but you know, as long as everybody has the mentality that, you know we're all like on a straight path. You know it's funny you say that I had a conversation actually with Jim the other day and I said I have a prediction that the next generation, even the generation now of young littles and stuff, I think they're going to come back to specialty snowboard. I mean, you're never going to get an experience like you'd get walking into a snowboard shop. You know you go to powder house and you get the smiles and you get the assistance and you get the boot fitting and you get the whole package right and then you get the experience of like walking out with something in your hand.
Speaker 1:I have this gut feeling like it's going to, it's going to come back. I think you know even me like I crave that now. You know I'm sick of seeing everything online and me and my wife were talking the other day and you know you know we're actually talking about how can we create those experiences that we had as children for our kids now you know, and you know snowboards one of those things too. You walk into a snowboard shop that's been around 50, 60, 80 years and they just hold on to that.
Speaker 2:The essence of what it is, you know, and so which is becoming, you know, less and less common.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:You know, I mean I, and preparing for this I was doing, you know, the research of some of the first brick and mortar stores you were in and only a handful of those places are around anymore.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's tough, you know it's you know it's become survival of the fittest. You know which is a sad thing to say, but you know there's a few shops out there that are doing it well, they're doing it right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And you know, and I think they'll stand the test of time, they found their recipe, you know, and the recipe is just being all about the customer.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And of course, selling rad stuff too, right yeah. I guess this is a pretty good segue where I can like tell you maybe the aha moment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, please Kind of and kind of how it started.
Speaker 1:So, you know, finishing up school, you know, and I moved from, I moved to Ben, kind of with the same thought as you, right, like I wanted to come to a place. You know, I grew up in LA, grew up in Huntington Beach, garden Grove area. You know, a very fast pace and my family wasn't meant to be in LA. We were a very outdoorsy family, you know. We were camping and hiking and riding bikes and doing all these things. I mean everything that not the normal California would do. And I knew, like when I was finishing up college, I just like wanted to leave that place. I wanted to go somewhere where I could slow it down a little bit. You know, go snowboarding, you know, 50 plus days a year and like, really do the things that I wanted to do. And so and Ben was on my list I had come up here once with family friends when I was a little kid and all I remembered about this place was it was the place that everybody waved at you, which I thought was weird.
Speaker 1:You know, coming from California, and everybody's waving at me, you know, and I'll never forget, I mean, I looked at my dad one day and my mom and I just said you know I'm leaving, you know, and so packed up the bags, came up here and, you know, sat on a quest to be a snowboard bum, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what? Before we jump too far into the story arc of what's Blackstrap, I, like I've been aware of you know. To finish my thought earlier, my experience with Blackstrap was clearly over the last decade, the presence, both locally, regionally and now globally, has grown and it's been amazing. I never knew this story about you. I never knew the story about how you were founded, how you bootstrap this. You've never taken on an investor. It's privately owned and operated. Your products are American made and you know a lot of this. I learned at that Bend Outdoor Works conference where I met you and you know, to succeed in one of those areas, let alone all of them, is, you know you're an outlier. So I was incredibly stoked to like get the opportunity to sit down with you. Not to mention you now have 30 plus employees, right, you just is this year 15 that you've been in business.
Speaker 4:Yep, yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's phenomenal, dude. So you know, that's where we are now right, and I think it's fun to tell stories. And you know, present day is, you know, you have a very successful, independently owned and operated US made outdoor industry brand that's expanding into different sectors, is what it appears to be? Just not snow anymore, and that's phenomenal. So, to kind of start the story, I got in touch with Jim Sanko, right, is it Sanko? Yep, yeah, and I have a couple of audio clips that are fun to kind of tell these stories with. So here's your buddy, jim.
Speaker 3:We hear that a lot too. People are like, how, like, why, where and how do all these things get to all these places? Like you must have funding, you must not be privately owned, you must have all these things. And it's literally not like, from beginning to the end, right, Like I started working for Abe whatever 13 years ago in his back room, making whatever money he wanted to pay me I don't even remember, it didn't matter right?
Speaker 3:And all the way to now where, like we have an executive team, we have probably in-house 30 plus people that work at that facility and then in-house full time, you know like, and that's everyone from Abe down to our packaging and our merch teams. And like I can assure you of one thing like I helped to get there, but I didn't do that shit. Like Abe made sure that, like, those people were taken care of and have a place to come work and do those like important core things. But again, like when you get to that level of scaling a business, regardless of what you're making dude, like making face masks or making paper plates, like whatever it is, at a certain point, like there's got to be those people that are like the ones that make sure that shit happens, you know.
Speaker 1:That's a. You know it's hard for me not to listen to stuff like that and feel a little emotion.
Speaker 2:You should, man, you know it's a Get closer to that, Mike.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's, you know it's. Yeah, hit the heart hard, you know, to feel appreciated is, you know, a nice thing for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man and I very much kind of designed these and I've learned over the years literally at this point now that I've been doing this that like bringing in these sound clips of other people that contribute to the story that we're sitting here talking about is a fun way to hear the story. Right, and I mean that's the name of the podcast, is the circling podcast. It's about bringing other people into the story than just you and me sitting here. So, yeah, I listened to that sound bite from Jim and I was telling you this before we started recording. It's like and this is a theme with you is this desire not only to be a good leader but also to improve your leadership quality, right? Because I'm becoming a believer that it's hard to teach leadership, but you can learn leadership.
Speaker 2:I think those are two very different things, 100%. So you know, I mean, when I asked that survey about a recent book, you know I'm a big Simon Sinek fan. Yeah, I mean he's. I think he is an incredible communicator in terms of expressing tried and true kind of timeless, wise, applicable approach to stuff. You referenced one of his very famous books what Does it Leaders Eat Last? Yeah, so I mean, describe your leadership style to people, or the current version of it.
Speaker 1:Current version.
Speaker 2:I was gonna say yeah, my version has changed over the years, as it should right.
Speaker 1:The current version is very much me trying to learn to listen more right and to understand internally that not everybody's built like me right.
Speaker 1:Or built the same way right, and with that then digesting how they communicate, how they feel successful, how I can empower them, and really absorbing that like a sponge and feeling how I can make them the best they can be. I'm not perfect at it. Sometimes I still might come across too intense. Just I'm just a passionate guy and so I think right now my leadership style is very much just getting in tune with every person that I work with and making sure that I give them the best version of me. Yeah, I mean the why has changed. I would say ultimately, the why has stayed the same to our customers and I always make sure that they know our why, right. But internally, my why has definitely changed over the years.
Speaker 1:Originally, when I started the company, the why was to just put better product out there and put more product out there and make sure I solved the problems for everybody. But after hiring Jim, and then employee number five and then employee number 10, my why started to change. The reason I come to work now every day is watching other employees' why's like why they come, and then how can I inspire them to have their own why's? I get really fulfilled by that, watching people buy their houses or have children or get married, all internally right, I call it the beehive. It's like a beehive effect. I'm going there and it's buzzing, and that's the things that bring me to work every day now. So that's my why. My why is how can we continue to build this like rad company while making all of our employees feel fulfilled, successful and safe? You know?
Speaker 2:And that's pretty much where my why is at right now, yeah, the safety aspect is a big part of that. Yeah, I Like big part of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I heard I don't remember who said it, but there was another owner from another organization in town and I remember an employee had applied for Blackstrap and he had said that he heard that you know, aid built a good business and Blackstrap's safe, and that really hit home for me to know that people feel that way under this roof. And you know, I tell people that every day. You know, sometimes I come across a bit passionate or eccentric in many ways, but it's really just because I'm passionate about what we're doing and I care about all those people as much as I care about my own family and you know, and their success is important to me. It's funny I look back and none of that even played in my mind then. It was all. It was all. It was like I was going to school, but I was going to school in real life.
Speaker 1:So like the feeling of like learning business and you know, learning all the terminology and getting nose and figuring out how to overcome those nos and turn them into yeses, Like all of that was what I was driving me every day it's. I had this like mindset that I was like I'm not gonna take no from anybody, I'm gonna be persistent. I know I have a good idea here, I just gotta convince him of it. Yeah, I think right now. I think even in the company today, we still act the same way.
Speaker 2:Cause.
Speaker 1:I'm constantly saying we can never be stagnant, we always have to be, thinking of what's next. What's the future? Who is the future?
Speaker 2:how do we do it? You gotta be looking down the road, yeah, and I think you're not growing, you're dying.
Speaker 1:And so for me it's like you know and again, growing doesn't just mean selling more stuff. You know, for me, growing means, you know, if we're professionally growing great, if the business is growing great, you know, but how do we do it and why do we do it? I mean, I was only at Sears for about a year and I took I had thought to myself like why don't I take the eBay idea that I was doing before and just kind of applying it so I can get a little more freedom and stuff? So it was funny. I was known at a few of the local shops that used to call me Yabe, which was eBay backwards, because I used to come in and I remember I got my first credit card, you know I had like a $500 limit or something and I would just go in and I'd buy their on sale items and then I would turn around and sell them on eBay and you know, that kind of funded me.
Speaker 1:You know, for a bit I learned a lot from that experience. You know I reflect back now, you know, cause obviously back then I wasn't thinking this way. But what that business gave me is it gave me perspective on the customers you know, like how do they shop, what are they looking for, why are they looking for it, you know? And I started to learn their like shopping habits and their price challenges and I started to look at like how they were buying and what seasons were they peaking and buying in. And again back then I wasn't doing it for those reasons. But I look back now and I was like man that gave me a lot of knowledge for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was the first pass of a skill set. Yeah, it was funny.
Speaker 1:We actually just had our national sales meeting. We had like 75 people in house at 10 barrel and the gal behind the bar came up to me. She's like. I totally remember you. I used to pack all your boxes. You're the eBay guy.
Speaker 1:And I was like yeah, it was like this full circle thing for me. I was like man number one. You can remember that and you know she came up and she gave me a high five and she's like it's really cool to see that you, that you made something of that company and I was like cool, it was rad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's really rad.
Speaker 1:It's part of that community. You know what I mean For me and Ben. It's like man. 15 years later, you still remember who I was and you're still here and you know it was cool. It was a cool thing.
Speaker 2:That's super cool. So 2010, I believe, is when you met your first employee, who we heard from earlier Jim, totally yeah, and so I have a little bit more sound bite of Jim and, let's see, this is kind of sharing around the time when your guys pass first crossed and some of the early memories he has of working with you at Blackstrap.
Speaker 3:I was living in Ben. I moved to Ben in 2007. I'd been in Ben for a couple of years and I was finishing up school and at the time I was a media producer. I was a videographer and did digital editing and shot photos and did a bunch of that kind of stuff and it was always everything's always been like snowboarding to me. So I was doing that and some buddies of mine were in a rail jam up at the college. So, like a lot of the guys that were in them were friends of mine and we were filming like resort style stuff and they did like this little satellite one at COCC. Like back then, like I said, it was probably 2010 or so and I was filming it, and those guys were all there and Abe had like a booth, like a tent there and they were like hey, like this dude has been giving us like face masks and blah, blah, blah and like he'd probably wanna like buy some photos or buy some video from that event. And I was like cool, that's my business right now, like that's rad. And so I went and I met with Abe and his girlfriend at the time wife. Now we went and just met at Brojo's on the West Side and like pretty quickly started talking to Abe about like what he was doing, all this stuff and it was like very clear that like he didn't need images and video of, like local snowboard kids.
Speaker 3:Like my background was in the skiing, snow industry. I'd worked for a couple of companies and at the time I was working for Heli Hansen. They had a like corporate store down at the Old Mill and I was one of the guys that worked there and so I at least knew like the structure of the industry, like not well at this time, but like there was more to it than like you had to go to these shows, you had to sell to these specific people, you had to do these things. I didn't really know what the methodology was behind it, but I knew that like I had been to SIA in Vegas and at that point like I pretty much was just like that, Pretty much just said that to Abe.
Speaker 3:I was like you know, like I can see what you're like trying to do, and I don't think like you, I think there's these other things that you should, that you should, look into, and I'd be, I'd be down to like be a part of it and talk about it more. And then at a certain point it like kind of came to a head where it was like I was like dude, like here's what I'm making, like it's not much, Like if you can pay me this much, like I'll just spend more time hanging out with you and we can, we can figure out what's going to go on with Blackstrap. Like at that time I think we had like there may have been some like term based accounts, but I bet it was a lot of. It was consignment and shit. I'm like I know the story that Abe will tell you is like his first selling was Terry Blaylock at Bachelor and that was all like hand sewn stuff.
Speaker 3:Like you know like yeah.
Speaker 3:Terry Terry was at the ground floor OG Sheershaws, so like Jeremy Nelson and Maddie Gary and all those guys, son of a Sports, it was a very like local core collection of shops. But I like, so like I grew up in Portland, snowboarding in Portland, so I knew I knew the shops in Portland Like I knew, like I grew up with Cal's pharmacy but like I knew exit, I knew castle, I knew outdoor, I knew all those guys and I was like dude, I bet if we just go up there and like sling it, like we can do it, like we can sell it, you know. And so my caveat was like yo, if we go up there and we sell all these shops in, like we get an office.
Speaker 1:Like I don't wanna drag sun river anymore.
Speaker 3:Like you can come hang out in your third bedroom.
Speaker 3:Like we need something, you know, and so we did. We went up and like couple of the guys that shot us down are like dudes now that we still work with in the industry, like George who's that used to outdoor store for a long time. Like I'm pretty sure he like told us to kick and rocks. Yeah, long story short, we just went and did that one sales trip up to Portland where we just like walked into places and we sold a bunch of shit and we have enough money to get an office, and then we just kind of like straight up, just ran with it and I quit visit Bend.
Speaker 1:So eloquent. Until this last building, we had moved I think 10 times in 15 years. So yeah, we were always. You know, at the time is, every time we saw some place slightly bigger, you know, you'd go in and Jim and I would look at each other and the rest of the staff is like there's no way we could fill this. And then a year later We'd fill it. We'd always be like man. I'm like how's this happening?
Speaker 2:dude, how's that going at your current location?
Speaker 1:Current location we are stuffed. Yeah, to the gills, you know multiple spaces, containers, five people to an office. I mean we definitely are making it work, but we are close. It's rather we like it back there.
Speaker 2:It's tucked away.
Speaker 1:It's kind of off the beaten path. Yeah super rad and you know I got lucky at the time when we moved into that space. We never thought it would turn out to be what it is, but yeah, we like it back there. Yeah but Running out of space quick. You know, and you know it's a Jim's note. I mean, you know we're actually. We just hit employee number 48.
Speaker 2:Whoa yeah, the other day so 48 48.
Speaker 1:Yep, we are stacked dang man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's been cool, and now you have like a whole executive team.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was, you know, that was. It's crazy. I mean, obviously this was post-covid and, you know, culmination of what 13 and a half years of just Doing a lot of those decision-making. Myself and I just, you know, woke up one day and I was like I'm, we need, I need to change, we need to make this, you know. I need to make a change to give everybody a better version of me, you know, and to give the company the even stronger legs to take it into the next, take it in the future, into the next step. So I just made the decision, made it happen.
Speaker 2:Is that because you felt like you were spread too thin or you had like, insufficient knowledge for how big the brand was getting, or Personal like?
Speaker 1:I mean, it's all. It's a lot of factors.
Speaker 2:I mean.
Speaker 1:First factor is, you know, like, like during this whole process. You know, randy Shot me a message on LinkedIn. Randy Torcom, who's our current VP of brand and marketing, and he you know he's got a pretty stacked resume he does. And I remember looking at that and thinking to myself like wow, man, this guy that's got like Industry knowledge and he's been a vet you know to kind and Burton and all these rad places like he's hitting us up on LinkedIn.
Speaker 1:You know, and we got lucky at the time you know his life circumstances, you know made it where he needed to stay and bend and you know he had an opening and we brought him on board and I remember quickly just being blown away about the knowledge of just, not only just the industry but just Working in companies and corporate processes and all these things, and again, we don't want to be corporate, but bringing that knowledge was huge and quickly after that I was like, okay, this is what we need to do to take this brand to the next level. We got to bring in a team that know, knows more than me. Yeah, you know yeah.
Speaker 1:And it's and it's been fun right. Like I get to keep that. Like you know, I still run a lot of the day today, but I get to keep that like founder mentality. Like I get to throw out the ideas and like where I want the brand to go and then they get to just be the ones to figure out how to do it, which is cool Totally. Which is funny that you say that I I live every day still with the belief that we could go out of business tomorrow.
Speaker 1:Yeah and so we got to be smart, you know, about the moves that we make, yeah, but Also smart about the way we hire. You know we definitely the VP team now and the executive team. I was very strategic in the hiring process and they're all people, obviously, all people that work really well with me, but also all people that I knew that could become as passionate as me about the brand and have the same why is in the same reasons that come to work every day. It wasn't just about, you know, growing their professional career. I mean, actually all of them are. You know, essentially, you know taking a step back from, like, really successful jobs and, you know, coming to work here because they all believe in the same thing that we can make this brand something great. We're on that. We're on a path of, you know. Just, you know we found our footing. You know we've we've always made really good product.
Speaker 1:I would say we were a product-based company, because that's what I knew how to do. You know, I knew how to take a product to make it better and make sure it solves somebody's problems, and the team now is on a mission to figure out how to like, build the brand and Make product and brand have a baby, and I think that's gonna be the key to our success over the next 15 years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no doubt.
Speaker 1:It's actually a funny story because a lot of the processes and things we do today are the same way. I built them 15 years ago, you know, and obviously by accident. I mean, we just don't have all the cool tools that we, you know, we don't have the cool tools that we had Today, that we had back, you know it's basically, you know different. Now I mean, you can get on better sewing machines.
Speaker 1:I mean better sewing machines better. You know I wasn't. I don't have to fax in order anymore, I don't have to get pick up the phone as much. I mean, back in the day was a grind, you know, and and at the time, the sewing industry in like 2005, 2008, was destroyed. You know, from the recession and it was tough. You know I was calling around, you know, finding mills that were making carpets and trying to convince them to figure out hey, you know, I have this idea for a fabric, can you make this for me instead? And I think it all played to my favor and the the economy was down and everything was down, so they were willing to gamble, you know, and it's. It's a lot of what we do now is the same, just different. You know, we're still using a lot of the same mills. We're still using our same sewing contractors. It's just all bigger.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know they got you know it's. You know we joked. I joked with them one of them the other day where they said bet on a good horse.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's probably fun to like have built those relationships over time.
Speaker 1:It is, it is, it's, it's different. You know that industry is very different. You know every bit of every step of the way. There was me trying to figure out.
Speaker 1:When you say that industry, you mean textiles, textiles and manufacturing you know the thought process, how they feel that they're succeeding, what they're looking for in the relationship. All of that is just very different from what you get on the other side selling to a ski or snowboard shop, and so for me, it was learning how to adapt to what their needs were and Making sure that I was building the right relationships and for and frankly, most of the business back then was just me giving them my On ideas on how to pivot their business, like, hey, I have this idea for fabric that you're not what I was gonna, that you're not making you can make this for me, but maybe you can make some of it for somebody else too, you know.
Speaker 1:And then the sewing was the same way. It's like, hey, you know, you've been dying jeans in LA for a hundred years. You want to try sewing something, you know. And so that's really basically where it started, you know? Yeah, I.
Speaker 2:Have a buddy who's, I think, wills semi retired, you could say but he teaches part-time up at OSU and In there I think it's the school of business, like Cascade School of Business, and last year he was teaching an outdoor product development class and he asked me to come up and Be part of the audience that was gonna judge.
Speaker 2:There I think there were three or four pitches that were being performed on like MVP level products that his class had been working on all year and there were. There was this one kid in the class student I shouldn't call him a kid, everybody's a kid anymore but his name is Max Reed and he started Max Reed apparel, which is he started it out of his dorm room and and it's basically he's trying to manufacture and market and build a business around Kind of urban style, kind of ski and snowboard pants, and he's just starting with the pants. So I've kept in touch with him because he, you know he just he has that, he has that thing. You know like there's certain kids you you hear pitch their brand and it's like they're passionate about it.
Speaker 2:And you know it's, they're not gonna give up and it's like, you know, it's only a matter of time. So I've kept in touch with him and I actually want to do a podcast with him at some point, just as a young person hit their perspective coming up in Bend, oregon, in 2023. I'm like trying to balance paying for rent and getting a pass and, you know, I think he hustles man. It's good, you know that's a number.
Speaker 1:That's the number. One thing you need is hustle. I've learned his persistence and hustle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure. So I wanted to offer him an opportunity, kind of participate in this. So nice, I called him and he wanted to share his blackstrap story. But then also he has a question for you.
Speaker 3:Cool.
Speaker 4:My name is Max Reed and I own a small brand called Max Reed apparel and I make ski pants here in Bend. I hand sew custom ski pants and then I get larger quantities produced by manufacturer and I'm really just trying to bring more of a street style to skiing and build on the park style and street style and skiing and snowboarding. I've been wearing blackstrap since I was probably like 10 years old and I remember when I was like 15 I emailed them and asked for them to sponsor me and they gave me a 50% discount code and Like, just that like made me a customer for life for sure. So every year I buy a face mask, like to match my outfit for the year, and I have been probably since I was 10 years old. And then I also toured their towards their facility in Bend with my class. So that was really cool too, to see the whole, to see what, to see how they make everything.
Speaker 4:When I'm toward the facility I had already I had already been working on max redeparal. I was like two, maybe two years into it, but seeing the blackstrap facility with all the Sublimators and the way that they do it was really inspiring, because I want to be able to do all that stuff myself and not have it made overseas, because it's it's more sustainable and you can have a closer eye on the detail that's going into it and make sure that the quality is really high if it's right in your backyard. So that's like a big inspiration for me, for sure. So first of all, like when I emailed when I was 15, I got that discount code. I kind of want to know how often do you guys do partnerships with ambassadors and how has that played a role in scaling the growth of blackstrap? And with that, like, has social media really helped in scaling blackstrap as well? Yeah, I appreciate you, adam. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Okay, good questions, good for him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, max is rad, he, before you answer his questions. He also is like On the on the bubble of graduating college and he is decided, I think, at this point, to go all in with max read apparel.
Speaker 1:It's the time is when you're young.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean again when I, when I made the decision to jump into blackstrap. I remember actively making the decision like if I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah 1,000%.
Speaker 1:There's no backing out totally and so you know, but also with the safety net, knowing that if I were to fail, I could, I could maybe do something else right, you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But yeah, rad for max you know, it takes a lot of guts to want to start a business for sure, especially in the ski and snowboard industry.
Speaker 2:100 yeah, I'll have. I'll have his link to his website and stuff on the show notes so people can check it out. It's max read, apparel, calm and he's. He's the real deal. He's a ripping skier too. He's got good style.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's funny, two of those things landed right in the gym's court, you know, in the beginning and obviously now have moved on to Randy and his team. But yeah, we never had the funding for ambassadors to do it like some of these other brands, right, we couldn't get the product on. You know big sponsored names and Jim was pretty Adamant in the beginning. That and even I was. If you talked to Jimmy now, I was just I was giving out mass to the right people and I knew that if I got the right mass on the right Can people in this community, the community would support it.
Speaker 1:You know, and I knew that right out of the gate, and especially if it was a product that was good and that they like to wear, and so, yeah, and that's always been a motto of ours, to make sure that, like you know, if the community reaches out and you know they, they want to rock our product, we're stoked to have them in it. And I would say, you know, for max it would be the same thing. You know, get it on the right people, you know, and in many ways they were our proving ground too. Right, these are the people that were out, you know, 30, 40, 50 days, at least the season. They were beating up the product and they would give us the feedback and it was. It was awesome, right. So, like, we've got community support, but we also got the feedback to make the product better. And then, on the social media side, I Would say it's been okay, you know it's never.
Speaker 1:It's never been Something we've concentrated on. You know, obviously our social media platforms have been there for a while. It's an outlet for us to, you know, speak about the brand, show who we are, but honestly, it's never been a huge factor for us. You know, I I'm very adamant on old-school marketing. Yeah, gorilla style like getting getting in the shops, getting face-to-face. We actually are working on a program now where we have, basically like an ambassador at every store, somebody that's like an advocate for the brand.
Speaker 1:Yeah that will help the brand in every store in the country, right, and then we'll stuck those kids out and make sure that they're feeling Inspired and they're stuck on the brand, and then the brand will do well too, you know. So, yeah, it's Not every recipe for every brand is the same. I can tell you that my feedback to max would be find the recipe that works for you. You don't have to like follow one path. You can take a little bit from a lot of different brands.
Speaker 1:Hey come up with something really good. That's cool, man. It's starting a brand in Bend Oregon. You know, like outside of the community a little bit maybe you know and like that you know, actually building a brand here, yeah talk about that.
Speaker 1:It's tough as hell you know, we, um, when I first started the brand, like we didn't know, I don't know, I didn't know what I don't know right, and I didn't know that there wasn't an infrastructure here for Shipping and getting products here and being made in the USA, it was tough, you know. We were shipping from, you know, 15 different points in the country. You know Bend wasn't a place on the map where trucks were coming through and so shipping was really expensive At the time, in the early days, you know, we had a just a ups hub, but every time it snowed it would shut down, you know, and people wouldn't get their products on time. And it was just a learning curve, you know. And so Figuring the interest in trick-a-sees of bend and like how it operated to make sure that we could be successful to get, was very key. I mean, you can see a lot of brands that have started in Bend or left Bend because they couldn't grow.
Speaker 1:And Bend it's tough, you know. And then, and over the years, that's kind of shifted a little bit too right, because now the biggest problem we have is how do we get town more talent In Bend, you know. But also, to that same note, how do we get people that want to have their first job and work in our warehouse and then, right, like most people, don't move to Bend work in a warehouse, you know. And so trying to like balance all these things and figure it out has been crazy. But I don't know if you heard, but we are building our new corporate offices and campus.
Speaker 1:Oh, no yeah so Right on the corner of ninth and Wilson there's a big sign.
Speaker 1:No it's you know blackstrap, you know we're. It's been a three, four year project with the city now and we're building our new corporate offices, our new campus. It's a campus style building, about 77,000 square feet, three and a half acres, and that was kind of like a really pivotal moment for me because it was I finally got to in a real big way can show that I, we, can Contribute back to this community by staying here, growing here and doing it the right way. And so, yeah, we're super stoked. We have this winner. Next we spring at 25 is when we're slated to move in. They actually start erecting the building this January, which we're psyched on and that'll be not only corporate offices, but Everything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're gonna have our blackstrap campus.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're gonna have it's called midway. You know, just cuz it's midtown, it's right in between the middle, midway between the east and west side. The logo. That logo is actually pretty fun too. It's a M&W, but it signifies embroidery and stitching.
Speaker 2:When you look at it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just kind of show who we are.
Speaker 1:Yeah and, yeah, we, you know we are talking to. You know lots of other like like-minded businesses and brands that want to move to Bend, because what we're trying to do is create Community atmosphere. You know, somewhere, you know we're another brand that could be just starting out, or another brand that could be big, that can come in and we can vibe off of each other and Really establish in a big way this outdoor community that you know Ben has for sure, you know, at first is just a mission to make my day better, you know, and so I bought some fabric online you know about a sewing machine from like Joann's or whatever it was named at the time and Ben and sewed up a mask. I actually still have the mask too, which is crazy, but sewed it up and wore it out on hill and what it? What ended up happening is is, every lift ride, I started getting people asking me where that, where I got it from. Right there, like, oh, like you look comfortable. Basically was the sentiment like, oh, they had snow cakes on their fleece mask, frozen triangles, you know, they had their neoprene mask with the nose thing on their chin, just, you know. And they kept asking me where I was or I got this from, and that's when I kind of had the aha moment that I was like I was already doing eBay and I was like, oh cool, maybe I could like side hustle and sell some of these things, you know. And so Went home, you know, bought all the thread I needed, bought some more bolts of fabric and I sewed up 50 of these things and Basically the way it went is, you know, I was like, okay, I'm gonna go to the guy that sold me that mask and I'm going to sell him my mask.
Speaker 1:And I didn't know anything about buyers or terms or anything. I just walked in and one thing I knew I could do is have a good conversation. And so I went in and I didn't even know his name at the time. I described what he looked like and they pointed to this back room and his office was below the stairs, like in the back corner of a hallway, and it was like I remember I don't get nervous much and I was nervous walking down the hallway and I walked in and he looked up at me and, no idea, didn't remember who I was and I just went right into it Like hey, I have this mask and I want to sell you 50 of them, you know, and at the time I later on I figured out why.
Speaker 1:But Terry took pity on me and he had a soft spot in his heart for local brands, you know, and so he bought all 50, which I was hyped on, still didn't know how to invoice him. He was asking me questions that I had no idea the answers to, but I remember I was like taking mental notes and the thing that was crazy, you know. I was like. You know, I remember like I was like felt so cool. I took my mom out to dinner that night and I was like, come on, this is so cool.
Speaker 1:I sold 50 of these masks and the next morning, like 1130 or so, he called me and he was like I need 50 more. Everybody that comes and works for me like I feel very lucky to have them. You know, even all the employees over the years, you know a lot of our ambassadors and our team riders were. They were helping us in the warehouse in the early days and we have pictures of like guys that would go to a rail jam in the evening but they were packaging product in a small little office all day and so like that I think all of that cumulative has been, you know, a contribution to our success. For sure it was gnarly. I remember COVID hit, you know, and it's literally the time where we collect all of our orders for the next year and we didn't have a single order.
Speaker 3:And.
Speaker 1:I've never seen that ever you know, not one, you know.
Speaker 1:the emails went silent, Everything was quiet. And Jim came up to me and he was like what do we do? And one of the things I've prided myself on all these years is that we are privately owned, we're debt free. You know, we made sure, you know. I looked at him and I said, you know, don't worry about it, we're fine. You know, like we can go another year. Let's just everybody keep doing their thing, we'll figure it out as we go.
Speaker 1:And then, you know, a week or two went by and we started seeing like everybody was closing right, like you couldn't open unless you had masks, and you know, and a lot of the staff were coming up to me and saying, well, we should make masks. And I had this moral quandary like I don't want to play into this thing, you know, like I don't know, like I don't know what's going to happen, and it was tough for me. And then I realized what I didn't actually realize. Then they started to announce that, like, face coverings in general is all we need. And then I thought, ok, if we're going to do this thing, we're going to make sure that we donate as much in whatever we sell. And we held true to that to the end, I mean at the end of the whole thing. We donated close to five million bucks worth of masks, more than the entire snow industry combined.
Speaker 2:Wow yeah.
Speaker 1:It was. You know over 500 agencies I think over 400 are listed on our website. You know we made sure it was a true one to one movement. We sold one, we gave one away Period. You know we supplied. You know all of Warm Springs and the tribes. We made all the school districts, the hospitals, copa. We gave them all the masks. You know we even. You know we had some big partners like REI and Dix and stuff that bought in and we made them. When they bought from us, we give them 25, 30,000 masks that they had to donate and we made sure it was like this is a thing If we're going to do it, we're going to do it right. And it was rad and at the same time we had like a 10 year stock of extra fabric that we were selling goggle covers for and we got to consume all this stock in a year that otherwise would have ended up in a landfill, so it was.
Speaker 1:it was super rad because we got to donate, you know, all this stuff and protect the you know landfill At the same time, which was rad, but man, it was. Yeah, it was tough. I remember my daughter was born in COVID.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I was. You know I was at home for a bit but working 22 hour days. I mean it was day and night, you know. And you know my wife kept telling me, you know, like you need to slow it down a little bit, you know, but all I could care, all I cared about was all the workers you know, like we got to keep this thing going because we don't know what's going to happen tomorrow.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:You know, and luckily we came out of it. Okay, I mean, I would say the you know, everybody came out of it as best they could.
Speaker 2:Are you excited for this year? How many days of snowboarding to get in?
Speaker 1:The last couple of years have not been great for me. I'll be honest, I think last year I got three, which is not very, very.
Speaker 2:unlike me, I'm disappointed in that number.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm going to challenge you to at least double that this year.
Speaker 1:Well, I had actually set myself a goal for I want at least 15 to 20 this year. So you know.
Speaker 2:I'd like to join you on one of those days.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we should, you know, we're.
Speaker 2:Can I go snowboard with you for a day?
Speaker 1:Yeah, or can I go snowboard with you for a?
Speaker 2:day yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 1:Let's not go snowboard with Jim because he has a tendency to just For me. I'm a communal snowboarder. I love to like hit a jump ride, some pow together, laugh. You know that's my type of snowboarding.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I do feel lucky. You know my son's old enough to snowboard now, so that's going to get me up a lot more. And then, obviously, you know, making sure we're working with the new executive team to try to get the company out more. You know, to make sure, you know we can't forget that that's why we all do this, right, you know. And so, yes, I'm challenged, challenged, accepted.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that'll be fun. I think you hit on a lot of things right there. One I applaud you for like creating space for your company and your employees to take advantage of why we live here. Right, I mean it's not easy. I'm sure.
Speaker 1:We're trying to figure out the recipe between like play hard, work hard you know like really living up to that and, you know, making sure that I can own what I'm saying and making sure that the employees know it's like you know, I want people to go snowboard and I want people to go ski.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And enjoy why they, you know. But then I also want them to come back to Blackstrap and be like oh man, let's grind it out for a little bit so we can do those things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I bet you find, though, that when people, when you give people those liberties, they come back motivated to work and jam, you know like.
Speaker 3:For sure?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's funny. You said you're a communal snowboarder. Like versus Jim. Is Jim like there's no friends on a powder day? Like just goes.
Speaker 1:I mean, sometimes Jim can be good about it, but yes, he's a no friends on a powder day. He's like first line me. Don't follow me, because you will get stuck because I get greedy.
Speaker 2:Where did he grew up? In Portland.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:And so he. I'm guessing how old is Jim?
Speaker 1:Jim is two years younger than me. 37. 37. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I'm okay. So yeah, I'm just thinking about where he grew up and kind of that style. And if he grew up riding meadows and yeah, I mean I get it. And then you grew up in Southern California, where do you like, did you go to, like Bear?
Speaker 1:Mountain, high Bear. Yeah, and that would have, if we would do a longer track, a longer trip.
Speaker 2:So you know it's funny because Mountain High and Big Bear, you know that's a lot more snowboard. Stop watch, you know everybody hits the feature the trail. But there's something fun about that too, because it's like it's like a skate park. Right you start, you start kind of building and riding on the energy that's created. I think that's probably.
Speaker 1:I grew up skating too, and I think that's probably why I just enjoy that. You know, like whenever it's funny, whenever I ride with Jim, I'm like you go first because I like to like watch what he does and how he hits it and see if I can hit it different or hit it better or bigger, you know, and that's all part of it for me, and then laughing about it you know like.
Speaker 1:I have a funny story too, where I literally I forget all the details but I literally tomahawked in front of Jim, but it was like the worst you know, and Jim's like. I totally got it on film. It's like I laughed about it because I was like that's what I want and I want you to see me eat it harder than everybody else.
Speaker 1:And you know, and it's I think that's what brings me the most joy about snowboarding. You know that is that you can talk to your friends about, like the awesome day you had and how the sick with the power was and and bachelor's super unique to that right, Like bachelor's pretty unique that you can like because it's so flowy and surfy that there's so many features and things to hit.
Speaker 2:It's super true.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That it actually adds to that whole. That is super true Effect, which is rad, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I, I, I like the balance. I remember my very first time going to Mount Baker with a friend of mine, which was a very like. If you weren't strapped on when you got off the chairlift, like you, like you, whether or not you saw them, the rest of the day was your problem.
Speaker 4:Right.
Speaker 2:You know, and it was like which I have come to really appreciate, because I loved jam and just like charge. But I've also always loved the, the energy around, like sessioning a feature or you know what the freaking most fun I've had snowboarding the last like five years was was two years ago. Pete um Alport built the prequel up at Houdu.
Speaker 2:And it was like I hadn't hiked at, like like you know, low consequence, just fun snowboard park features in years and like just that, it felt like you were at escape jam, you know, like everybody was, just it was so much fun.
Speaker 1:It was the community side, it was a community. Yeah, you just watching everybody talk, that's what I mean, like the energy that that gets and it's funny, I'll go up and jam by myself and ride power I and I'll leave with a smile on my face Every time I'm in that. More community driven, yeah, I leave, saying to myself.
Speaker 2:I need more of that totally.
Speaker 1:And it's a different kind of addiction. Yeah and so, yeah, it's just, and then we can mix the two together.
Speaker 2:It's like you know, the perfect marriage for sure. Do you ever do you guys go on like I Don't know, backcountry ski trips out to like three sisters? Yeah, so you guys do you much stuff like that as a, as a, as a company. Yeah, so we've gotten better actually.
Speaker 1:So during COVID we all, you know, we were all separated. We had problems getting together. So I actually bought four snowmobiles for the office and yeah, actually for my do you get?
Speaker 2:800 summits, summits. Yeah, it's ski dudes.
Speaker 1:Huh, we did yeah it's the only thing we could get. You know, I went. I don't even think any. I don't think Polaris was even an option at the time.
Speaker 2:There's nothing on the market.
Speaker 1:We went in. They had four left. We took all four so we could get out. Yeah and it's funny, I actually look at those pictures. It's the picture on. It was the picture on my LinkedIn for a while. It was a year after COVID and my birthday, which always falls, you know, right during trade shows season, and Jim actually took me out in the snowmobiles and we just, you know, we went split boarding in the back country and he had some champagne and orange juice at the bottom and yes it was rad, it was like one of my best memories and it's yeah, so definitely more of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah we were not pros on, the snowmobiles were pretty good.
Speaker 2:I bought my first snowmobile from Cascade Motorsports in 2000 and it cost.
Speaker 2:It was an RMK 800 and it cost me like 6,500 bucks, which I'm a lot. Back then it was a lot. But it was also like you know, I I needed a snowmobile for that winter and I had never owned one and really never ridden one. And I bought that thing in like December and got went on a trip like the next week. So I took it up to Dutchman Flats to learn how to ride it at night oh, I, during a storm now and and like those things were not light.
Speaker 2:So, when you got stuck, you were there where I was up there till like three in the morning like learning how to ride it, undigging myself and, at the same time, having some of the most fun I've ever had cuz, like you know, at night with the headlight. Oh, it's kind of. Oh, it's so fun. Oh, dude, you got submarine, those things.
Speaker 1:And yeah, I mean I'd say we're in a luckier position now because those new, the new, oh, those are so like oh yeah, we, you know, and Jim and I have had some of the best days We've ever had. I bet on some snowmobiles you know, last year we went out Sparks Lake and it was, you know, after that super crazy storm cycle where we got like four feet over five days. And I remember, I'll never forget I was snorkeling that whole, that whole time that was Sick yeah, it's fun.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, and it's tough. It's actually tough to get off the snowmobile and get back to snowboarding because it can be. It's so much yeah but then we started to realize oh man, get to get a couple mo pro racks, put those snowboards on and you can get in places where people have never been.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, that's pretty right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:We should definitely do that. If you got a snowmobile, we should definitely get out on those this year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't anymore. It's, it's.
Speaker 1:I sold that thing and well, if you're, if your wife lets you, you can come out on one of.
Speaker 2:Ours. She'll let. She'll encourage me to yeah. I, I try to borrow at least. Yeah, I'm so bad man. I just it's like I should buy my own damn snowmobile but one. They're pretty expensive, they're gnarly and two like Realistically, you know, like I could probably get out on that thing six times in a winter.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, I went snowboarding only three. Yeah we got on the snowmobiles of quite a few times last year, so yeah, I would definitely Want to invite you, should come out?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd love to. That'd be fun. Yeah, I love that country skiing oh, it's so good.
Speaker 1:And Jim and I actually we love to go out and just trail ride and go to places We've never seen before, you know nice get stuck in some power.
Speaker 2:Yeah, fields now and then. We have a Tradition my daughter and I, we skin to the top of bachelor. Everything's giving morning. She's 14. Oh so this will be your four. She started when she was 10.
Speaker 1:How do you feel about the past situation for uphill this year?
Speaker 2:I get it. You know, I mean I Get it. I'll leave it at that you know like it's a fine line.
Speaker 2:you know that I walk with Kind of my old mentality and when I came up in snowboarding and it was a little counterculture and kind of pushed against authority and at the same time, understanding that like that's not necessarily the best attitude to have when you start thinking about overall what's best for people in terms of safety and protocols, and so it's. It's that kind of push pull and I think anybody that would say otherwise is probably full of it, you know, because I think everybody finds value and a little bit of like I mean, I would say the snowboard community has grown up in that sense and feel and I would say the vast majority Feels the same way.
Speaker 1:I still think there's a little bit of counterculture in there a little bit against the machine. And I don't want to love, yeah, but on the same time, with enough to know they understand why certain things are happening, you know and why certain things have to happen to protect, you know, those places for us in the future for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I absolutely get it.
Speaker 1:I feel very fortunate and hyped. So my neighbor, mm-hmm, I out cuz I live out in Sun River nice. I've lived in it next to him for ten years, had no idea, but apparently he worked for Nike and Patagonia back in the day and he's like he saw me teaching my son at a snowboard in our front yard.
Speaker 1:We got a little skip of snow and I was pushing him around. He's like. He's like. You know, I got some old snowboards. You want to come over and check them out? And I was like, sure and no shit. He had an original Burton shaped by Jake. He had Whoa he had another Burton shaped by Jake and his first employee, and Then he had an original Sims. I'll show you a picture here. It's rad, and he sold me the whole set.
Speaker 2:You got to be kidding.
Speaker 1:No, it was like the biggest.
Speaker 2:It's like the biggest come-up I've ever seen did you have to send me that photo so I can? I can share it with people, because people are gonna want to see that. Yeah, oh my gosh yeah. So it's an old Burton performer to performers one with by means, one without yep, and then an original and an original elite and that was from the first year when they went to Austria.
Speaker 1:So in the bottom right corner it says shaped in Austria, first year your neighbor had these in his garage, yeah, literally all dusty and you know it's even crazy. You don't see him there. He has all the original bindings, so they're like I can't even put them on the boards, they're so brittle.
Speaker 2:Holy Moses, bro, what I mean those are like, especially that one on the right with the rubber, like Water ski by knee Yep. I think that was the one credible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and if you look, really I don't remember, is it? What was Andy's last name? That? Works for Jake, I don't know, or whatever it was like his first employee literally says shaped by Andy Coglin and Jake and Jake Burton carpenter, and it's got a registration number and it says board. I think he was numbering as a boards in the beginning. Yeah it's board, number two thousand three hundred and twenty two. It's pretty sick.
Speaker 2:That's beyond sick. That's that needs to find. You need that. That better be in the midway. It is.
Speaker 1:I saw that I thought art pieces from my office, yeah 100%. And then the original Sims board, which was crazy. It's incredible and then even through in there K2 legend. Yeah you should see this thing. It's literally got aluminum foil on the outside of the top sheet. You can't even write it. So he said he tried to write it one time. It was unrightable.
Speaker 2:So yeah, it's snowboard. History is fun. I mean I've been this lat. The last podcast we did was on power surfing and I got. I got to and the research in that was tons of fun, Cuz I got in touch with this guy that runs a do?
Speaker 1:I'm gonna take a better picture than the one I'm sending you.
Speaker 2:Whatever. No, I mean yeah, that'll that people get the idea, but but just the like the, the Sherman poppins of the world, and then and the old, the guys that like yeah, and it's funny to see. The thing I love about power surfing is that it's just like it's taking it back to like that super simple, so enjoyable Process of just like making powder turns you know originally when I got you know because I know James pretty well from snow planks.
Speaker 1:I have two of his original, not cut edge wood sides, and then he did it, gave me the cut edge, no metal edges.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and.
Speaker 1:I remember I had a great time because it brought me back to like how it felt totally ride, pow like kind of uninhibited, and you know who that you know. I was gonna tell you who has the best snowboard collection I've ever seen in this town.
Speaker 2:Let me guess, uh, cuz there's some old snowboard heads here, I mean, I bet I can get like I bet, give me a few guesses, gary Braceland.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's number one for sure Is he? Yeah, he's actually. He told me the other day that he's that's hilarious. He's hiring an OSU Cascades student to come and actually catalog.
Speaker 2:Holy Moses. I may have shared this story before, but when I was 13 years old, I got a job. I grew up in Cortley, Idaho, and I got a job at what at the time was called the Shred Shed, which was like the skate and snowboard store, and one of the brands that we carried was Moro and Gary was our sales rep.
Speaker 1:That's funny.
Speaker 2:And that's 30 years ago and I remember him coming in with, like you know, and just giving clinic demos on, you know, the Moro spoon, nose or Revert or whatever board of the day you know, like so long ago. And yet that it's such a you know, it's funny, Like I, the snow, the outdoors, like mountains, like culture, whether it's ski or snowboard or it, just once it becomes part of you, it's always part of you. You know it's such a unique community.
Speaker 1:Oh, man every and.
Speaker 2:I missed it, man. I walked away from it for a long time to try to like establish this other way of living here Right, and more and more I get to reconnect with people that are in it or just spend time with old friends that still do it. It's like damn, I missed this. If you can balance the two, it's the perfect place to be for sure.
Speaker 1:You know you get the snow. The snow like snowboard and ski community is welcoming. There's like so much. All of them are. Everyone I meet is passionate and it's hard to find that anywhere else. I mean every time we go back to a trade show, it's like you see, you haven't seen people in a year, haven't said one word to you in a year, and it's like high fives and hugs and like you know, it's like you were just talking yesterday and it's hard it's been hard for me at least to find that anywhere else.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Is fishing something you grew up doing or did you fall in love with it up here?
Speaker 1:No, so I did grow up doing a little bit of fishing, but it was the same thing. It's funny, my brain is always going to 1,000 miles an hour.
Speaker 2:And You're a good.
Speaker 1:I like you, you're a good dude, and snowboarding and fishing, surprisingly, were the two things that I could like turn off my brain. I don't know, and again I don't know what it was about fishing, but it did the same thing. You know, river therapy or whatever. I mean just standing in the water and or just being outside, I don't know. I mean yesterday. I think I just loved being in the outdoors. Yesterday. I literally looked at my wife and I was like we got to go outside because it was raining and I took my kids, I put them in my I have a camper on the back of my tundra and I drove them up to the woods in Mount Bachelor and we camped out for the night in the snow and watch the movie in the camper and brought them back the next day and I was fully recharged.
Speaker 1:You know, and I just think I don't know, man being in the woods just recharges me and so, but fishing, specifically, shuts my brain off, and snowboarding shuts my brain off. Snowmobiling doesn't shut my brain off. I'll literally be driving 70 in Powell and thinking about something, about going on at work, and so I don't know.
Speaker 2:That's interesting, man. Yeah, I don't know. I'm trying to think of the commonalities. I mean, there's a rhythm and a style to you know, riding a snowboard and casting a flyer on right and like what.
Speaker 1:but I mean, now that you say it, like you know, like I close my eyes and I think about it and it's like it's funny, when I'm snowboarding and I'm riding in Powell, I like I can like feel myself like kind of bouncing up in the snow and like lifting my nose up and, like you know, like I'm concentrating on all the feeling you know like I'm feeling my toe edge and my heel edge and it's almost like the world slows down and I can feel everything. It's weird to explain. I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they both require presence and fly fishing does the same exact thing, for me Like I'm like listening to the water and I'm making sure my cast is good and I'm like feeling my fly. Maybe it's the same thing, I don't know, I can't nail it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it does. Yeah, that's cool, that's really cool.
Speaker 1:You know what's funny is I also like fishing with other people, you know it's. You know I can go by myself and have a good time, but whenever I have somebody that I get to fish with and we get high fives, it's always the most fun for me. So I don't know if it's part of that too. Yeah, you'd like our new product guy, too, is super smart, Jason Valdez from. He was the guy that took hydroflask outside the bottle.
Speaker 2:So all the things you see, oh, like soft goods and stuff. Yeah, backpacks and coolers and plates and bowls. Oh wow, he's working with you now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so he started he's month three.
Speaker 2:No way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I remember the first he was like we're gonna fly to LA and I wanna meet your factory and all that. And the first meeting we had was with the founder of Hurley.
Speaker 2:No way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was in his Rolodex because he grew up working at. You know he worked at Hurley. And then the second meeting was with the founder of Rourke. Steve, and it's like oh man, this guy has a pretty hefty Rolodex.
Speaker 4:That's sick.
Speaker 1:You know? But yeah it was. And, man, I remember we sat down with those guys for hours and they're like the stories you hear.
Speaker 4:Oh man.
Speaker 1:It's crazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I learned a lot in six hours and I remember I left the meeting, the Hurley one in particular, where he looked at me and he looked at Jason and he goes yeah, this guy knows his shit, it's good, and I was like cool, I've just been validated by you know. Long-term industry vet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he built some crazy shit and that didn't feel pretty good. Yeah, it should. Yeah, what a trip man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was, and it's funny. You know, everything I've learned is just by making mistakes and just doing it.
Speaker 2:Well, that's, I mean people, I hope understand that that's how life works right, like you learn how to think critically in school and a certain skill set, but then you hone that in over the rest of your life. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I tell everybody at the office every day. I'm like let's break some shit today.
Speaker 2:Totally, man. That's how you learn, yeah.
Speaker 1:And they were like well, what if, like, we go out of business or something? I'm like no, we're never gonna break something that bad. So, like test the waters, break it and we'll figure it out.
Speaker 2:It's such a smart way to go about innovation. All right, bro Cool, we're doing this thing now where I take these episodes and I post the original, but then I also am doing what's called the short.
Speaker 4:So like.
Speaker 2:I'll take out what I think is kind of the best parts of this, because not everybody likes listening to two hours audio. Some people like 20 minutes. So, it's kind of a cool way to try to the short.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you like it too. It's good, it's good marketing.
Speaker 2:So try to increase your content without doing twice the amount of work.
Speaker 1:That's actually really good actually, by the way, it's a good marketing.
Speaker 2:So we'll see how it works.
Speaker 1:But hopefully I gave you some decent content.
Speaker 2:This has been a blast, yeah. Thanks for your time man, it's been fun. I look forward to making power turns with you, yes, you can hold me too, and then doing a little early morning skin, yes, and anytime doesn't have to be Thanksgiving either, as long as you hold us up to the snowmobile too. I would love that. That'll be fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Cool man, I'm proud of you. I don't really even know you that well but like I really respect what you've done and what you're building and the reason you're doing it.
Speaker 4:Like it's very authentic.
Speaker 2:And it's like this type of stuff is what makes where we live so rad.
Speaker 1:And I appreciate you for saying that. Yeah, it's cool.
Speaker 2:All right, man, Thanks Abe.
Speaker 1:Thank you.