Speaker 1: 0:39

He's not doing this for a brand or for a company. He's doing this because he loves it. This is a passion project, by the purest definition of that phrase. People commit far less time to endeavors that make far more money or carry far more clout, like ben's doing this because he believes in it and and I think that's what translates so effectively like with all the athletes that he works with, it is so incredibly difficult to photograph the breadth of athletes that ben is photographing. Ben does participate in a lot of these sports, which is what makes him so uniquely positioned to carry out this project, but he's photographing athletes in sports that he doesn't so heavily participate in. So to know the nuances of what to look for in each sport is so incredible. He's a real pro, but he kind of disguises that by just being like super easy to hang out with.

Speaker 1: 2:00

We did a ski trip down to crater lake. I believe it was three days, two nights, or maybe it was four days, three nights. We were just getting dumped on with this wet, heavy snow. We didn't have any views, like we hadn't even seen crater Lake at all. Um, by the end of the second day the snow was was too deep and too slow to ski the safe low angle stuff um in in a fun way. And it was. The snow was too unstable to ski anything steeper, so really we just ended up spending a lot of time cooking food and just like hanging out in the tent. We thought maybe it might clear up by the last morning. So on the third morning we did a sunrise scan of the Watchmen and got blessed with an incredible sunrise over Crater Lake. You know, it's just such a beautiful moment, it's such a beautiful place to experience that I think that's something that will always stick out from our experiences together. I'm Christian Murillo. I'm a nature photographer based in Bend.

Speaker 3: 3:46

Oregon. I recently read that photography is the only language that can be understood anywhere in the world and that one can think about a camera as an instrument that teaches people how to see the world when they put their camera away. On episode 59 of Ben Magazine's the Circling Podcast, I sit down with professional photographer Ben Kitching. Ben and I discuss the evolution of his love for outdoor adventure and how his stepping stones of life have allowed him to parlay his love for nature and adventure sport into a growing career as an adventure photographer. Ben shares his story of why he decided to change his trajectory from attending medical school to creating a life focused around being outdoors that has allowed him to grow in his knowledge and technical outdoor abilities. Ben discusses how his experience working as a wilderness therapy guide has allowed him to develop a level of emotional fluency that, when combined with his technical skills, have positioned him well to work with a wide range of athletes while in the mountains, on a river or climbing a multi-pitch route. Last year, Ben began working on a personal project focused around both professional and amateur outdoor adventure athletes, in an effort to share the inspiration that he regularly experiences from his subjects Through dynamic and engaging photography combined with a unique storytelling approach. The Oregon Outdoor Athlete Project highlights individual outdoor adventurers in their respective environments, demonstrating their talents with individual testimony from each athlete, sharing the why behind their lifestyle and the opportunity for growth that they each experience in their own unique way. And the opportunity for growth that they each experience in their own unique way. Yo Ben, Thanks for your time, man. It was a pleasure talking with you and I look forward to following your continued success.

Speaker 3: 5:46

The Circling Podcast can now be found on Patreon. Visit our page and learn how a percentage of your financial support will support local nonprofits and the continued growth of local community podcasting. Become a member and learn about this unique opportunity at patreoncom. Forward slash the circling podcast. Lastly, remember to stay tuned after the show credits and hear from Ben as he contributes to our blank canvas community art project that explores the magic found in art, embedded with meaning. Also, previous guest and episode contributor Josh Saran of Josh Report shares his upcoming plans for winter and his thoughts on the sale of Mount Bachelor while, as always, bringing the highest level of stoke. What's?

Speaker 4: 6:33

up Climber skier, dirtbag type of thing like it's somewhat authentic. I got that for you have youber skier, dirtbag type of thing Like it's somewhat authentic.

Speaker 3: 6:38

I got that for you. Have you ever read that book? Invisible Ink.

Speaker 4: 6:42

No, I haven't read this one.

Speaker 3: 6:43

So I go through. There's certain books that I will read. That's a used copy. I got it from Al's earlier this summer but kind of your process to storytelling that's been a really cool book. So when I get a good book that I think I'd like to have copies of to hand other people down the road, every time I go into a used bookstore I look for certain books. That's one of them.

Speaker 3: 7:04

There's me too I enjoy. I learned a ton in that book on kind of the structure of storytelling. Because I don't have any formal kind of journalistic background, I mean other than like creative writing in high school I mean, it's been 30 years, dude so like re-familiarizing myself with armature and like how you can kind of start creating threads of you know story and theme, and it's cool, I think you'll enjoy it. Have you read Storycraft?

Speaker 4: 7:34

by Jack Hart at all.

Speaker 3: 7:36

No, but I have it on my list.

Speaker 4: 7:38

Okay, yeah, that's one that I liked a lot. It's a little more towards writing, I think. Okay. I think you'll. There's still some of the same story, structure and stuff in there.

Speaker 3: 7:49

One thing and I wanted to talk to you about this down the road. But I like how your profiles on the athletes you've edited out your questions and that was one of the points of similarity Cause, like when I get these B-roll audio soundbites, like I edit myself out Cause I just think no one, I don't, I don't want to hear me, I don't think other people want to hear me ask these and that's not the point. So, like I think it's a cool way that, like you can kind of put some creative input to the story you're trying to draw out of people based on the questions you're asking them and that comes across in what you're doing and, like I very easily saw that's kind of your style.

Speaker 4: 8:28

I don't know if that's accurate or not, but yeah, I think in some ways I just all these athletes that I profile.

Speaker 4: 8:35

it's like like I look up to all these athletes in some way and gain inspiration from them and like watching them chase their passions and their stories. So I didn't want my voice to be in there. I wanted it to be their voice and their words, not my recollection of that. So that's where a lot of that comes from. Of just, I don't want my words on there. Their words will do the talking and I think there's still I have some control over it.

Speaker 4: 9:01

Obviously, we do 45-minute interview and I'm pulling 10 quotes, so it's little pieces here and there, and I'm obviously the one combing through those interviews and selecting that interviews and selecting that.

Speaker 3: 9:18

But do you have standardized questions that you ask or do you kind of customize them to the profile or the athlete?

Speaker 4: 9:23

A little of both, I kind of have my standard questions and it's just like on a Google doc that I keep on my phone and I'll use that. But then as different things pop up throughout and there are different stories or I have different questions, I'll branch off on different routes. I love it, man.

Speaker 3: 9:41

Well, you're on a cool journey. I mean, it seems like what I've learned from you and I'm excited to kind of hear it firsthand because I've been kind of putting pieces of it together based on different articles or interviews I've listened to and it seems like you're starting to gain some momentum in your pursuits of, you know, pursuing this craft of adventure photography and all that comes with it. I used to work in the outdoor space for a while and have some experience with photographers, mostly in the mountains space for a while, and have some experience with photographers mostly in the mountains, mostly in snow. But so I was excited because we I have kind of a it's been many years but kind of that background and those previous life experiences to draw upon. And I was hyped when, like you, sent me that link to the expedition on Denali. I remember when those guys did that trip on Denali. I remember hearing about that. Sage was the person I went to Valdez with my very first heli trip to Alaska.

Speaker 3: 10:43

It was three snowboarders and Sage was the one skier and I've shared that story before on this podcast but some of the most like, inspiring, like skiing I've ever seen in my life. There's something about watching skiers ski big lines that I mean I will, like I love snowboarding, but there's something about being square to fall line and just kind of your ability to maneuver that I mean I don't. I mean I remember watching him and watching him ski a really technical line and it was like all of our first time and you know the slough management and the level of skill he had. And that was 20 some years ago, dude. So I was hyped that that was such an influential piece of content on you around. Probably when you were starting to, was that in high school? I think I was in college at that point.

Speaker 4: 11:35

Yeah, and you went to college in Minnesota. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 11:38

St Olaf, small kind of liberal arts school there. What did you study?

Speaker 4: 11:42

Biology and economics. I was a double major. I was on the med school track and then we didn't have a business major so I got like an econ in case I didn't want to go that track and then have not used either of them since then.

Speaker 3: 11:55

Yeah, I didn't want to go that track and then have not used either of them since then yeah, yeah. I mean you, and like the vast majority of the world, you know I. I tell my kids like college anymore. Well, I don't know what college is anymore, but what it? What I learned in my undergrad was like the skill of studying, the skill of thinking critically right Kind of developing, hopefully, some of that momentum that was started in high school.

Speaker 4: 12:21

But yeah, that's cool. Yeah, I think I got a lot of different views and stuff, diversity of opinion, when I was there, because I grew up in General Motors town and that was kind of all I saw.

Speaker 3: 12:31

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 12:33

So it was first time out of town.

Speaker 3: 12:35

Yeah, in Wisconsin. What do you mean by General Motors town?

Speaker 4: 12:37

Like literally, yeah it was growing up, my dad worked at the General Motors plant. He was an engineer there. It was the oldest running plant in the country at the time.

Speaker 4: 12:48

It was like 110 years old, but it shut down my junior or senior year of high school, junior or senior year of high school and town of 65,000, I think they said like 20,000 jobs in the area were related to the plant. So that was kind of the whole downturn in the economy of like 2008, 2009. And I saw that firsthand up there. Fortunately, my dad was an engineer, not on the line, so he was able to get a job somewhere else, but he worked there 22 years, was three years away from a pension and that kind of stuff and just gone.

Speaker 3: 13:24

So yeah, man, that's a level of uh loss that you can't really understand, unless you're in it Like I can hear that and I've heard that and you know, like, getting to the age I'm four I just turned 45 and like the thought of kind of all these years of kind of investment into this idea of retirement, kind of going away outside of your control, is like terrifying. Terrifying, yeah, it happens to a lot of.

Speaker 4: 13:54

Pretty regularly, man, I think that might have been me at one point also seeing that the safe route isn't necessarily safe anymore. Like he didn't love it necessarily, like just did it to raise a family, not like he could have been promoted and kept us moving around, but wanted us to like grow up in the same spot, so kind of was the company man did that, and did that and it doesn't always work out, you know, and it I think it's going to less and less moving forward.

Speaker 3: 14:21

Yeah, I think it's a really good question and I do think there's a lot of value in kind of diversifying your income streams now you know, because of those exact reasons you know absolutely. I guess you know, just to provide some context for listeners. Like we came together around your Oregon outdoor athlete project because the magazine's doing a really cool feature on. I think there's like three or four athletes of your 33. Is that what I count?

Speaker 3: 14:48

Yeah 33, um that are being kind of not their whole interview but aspects of their interview, kind of highlights. Um are taken out with the photography that you created, which is that overlay of of their portrait over their kind of action photo, if you will, and which is rad. I like your style on that. It's a really cool way and it it creates like a um. It's like aesthetically pleasing to scroll through. Your like your stuff, like you take really good shots. I like your style and you're kind of your the way you format and frame stuff. And I took one year of photography in community college in like 1998. And it was on 35 millimeter film and we had like dark room and like that. Like creativity associated with photography is still something that like I don't shoot photos other than my iPhone, but still that the process, you know the, the uh, composure and what's the word I'm looking for. Composition, composition.

Speaker 3: 15:54

Yeah, you know rules of threes and just I love it, it's really fun.

Speaker 4: 16:00

Yeah, it's fun to get into. I think so for me. It also keeps me in the moment because I think there's some people who are like I'll go on trips and I'm like you don't have to take photos of everything or you don't have to have your camera out so often and I'm like no man, like I like doing it. Instead of like slogging uphill and like feeling like I'm suffering, I can be like oh, look at the way the light's coming around that Ridge over there, look at this cool rock or this bird. It's just like keeping me always looking for things instead of just like feeling beaten down at times. Like it, it keeps me more in the moment instead of looking to get to the end and like get to the summit.

Speaker 4: 16:39

I'm enjoying the whole thing and taking it all in and trying to get all those scenes and and also share them, Cause I love doing that.

Speaker 3: 16:46

Yeah, it definitely engages you in a different way. I know exactly what you're talking about, in addition to kind of your pursuits, um pursuits, but your investment in this Oregon Outdoor Athlete Project you also I mean your photography is starting to pay your bills and you do a lot of work with different outdoor brands in terms of logistics for trips and kind of you know adventure ideas to kind of tell a story. For, I mean, it's all marketing, right, talk about that, man, cause that's cool. Like, have you done some cool stuff this summer?

Speaker 4: 17:22

Yeah, I mean so. I just recently did a pack rafting trip. Nrs has just launched a new pack rafting line and I've done some other work with them. In some ways, like every time I go rafting, you're like going by other rivers that are too small for a raft and I keep seeing them and being like man, I wish I need to, I could do that, like I want a smaller boat, I want something where I can start doing that. And as soon as I saw that line was coming out, I've done a little bit here and there, like borrowing friends who have a spare pack raft.

Speaker 4: 17:53

Skier describe what a pack raft is yeah, so it's like a inflatable kayak in a way. So, um, it can roll up really small, but then you can blow it up and, especially for overnight trips, all your gear fits in the tubes of it and there's like a waterproof zipper that that gets zipped into um.

Speaker 4: 18:14

So it's good for expeditions or places that aren't easy to get into. You can't just drive the car up to, so you've got to hike in. It's also really good for low water stuff, because a raft just is big and heavy so it sits lower and kayaks are these hard shells, so the fully inflated pack rafts sit a little higher in the water and we'll go over more rocks and stuff than just about anything else?

Speaker 3: 18:40

Is that when I touched base with you and you were going on the Oahe? Yeah, how was that?

Speaker 4: 18:44

trip. That was cool. So most people raft it between 1,000 and 10,000. They measure it in cubic feet per second, so CFS and pretty much below that. Like you can't take a raft down it.

Speaker 3: 18:59

It's pretty bony. It's pretty bony.

Speaker 4: 19:01

There are people that do that but it's not a common thing. So we did it at 175 CFS so it's like roughly 70 miles of river and no one else was on it, it was all to ourselves. And there also just isn't beta on what it looks like that low. So kind of every rapid we'd get to her like okay, does it actually go? Like, are we lining up to go into a sieve? Like kind of had had to scout it ahead of time. It felt a lot more expedition style kayaking than normal and a lot more exploratory and I love that kind of stuff where you don't really know what you're getting into.

Speaker 4: 19:38

You just have to like, show up and adapt to it.

Speaker 3: 19:40

Yeah, man, I mean that's. That's the definition of adventure right. Yeah, yeah, so everybody was in their own packraft.

Speaker 4: 19:48

Yep, yeah, so there were three of us and we each were in our own boat and you were documenting it.

Speaker 3: 19:53

Yep, how fun, man. I bet it's fun, like the relationships that you're starting to build with some of these brands and their marketing departments. Yeah, definitely. Who are you working with? A lot now.

Speaker 4: 20:05

NRS I've probably done the most with. I've done some stuff, a couple of shoots with Choco now I've done a lot with Marmot. So it's kind of hard to get in with brands because you've got to think about it from the marketing director's perspective, Like their job depends on getting the right photos in a lot of ways. So they don't want to take the chance on that new person that they never worked with. So when you can get your foot in the door and prove yourself the first time and do well, then they keep coming back. And that's kind of what I've been each year. You know I'm getting more and more brands that I'm doing that stuff with and it's just kind of knowing that it's going to be the journey and signing up for that and when I have the opportunities, crushing it and doing the good work where I want to keep coming back.

Speaker 3: 20:52

How did you get that first chance? Like working with a brand? What was the lead up to that? I?

Speaker 4: 20:58

mean, I think it. It starts as a journey. I don't even trying to think of my first one, cause it starts almost as like you're just doing trade.

Speaker 5: 21:06

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 21:06

Like that's cause I think there are people who say like don't, don't do trade and like I don't do it at this point anymore, but as you're building your portfolio and you have nothing yet, that's where you got to start or or friends gear or kind of pretend.

Speaker 4: 21:22

Like you have a piece of gear you like and like making up a pretend shoot for that, and that's that's how you build the portfolio. Cause there's, I think I run into a lot of people who are like, well, I need the brand to pay me to like produce the work that I can do, and it's like that'd be great. But it's kind of the other way around, like you need to show what you can do, so that then they will pay you for it.

Speaker 3: 21:43

Yeah, it's kind of like athletes get on flow right Same idea.

Speaker 3: 21:48

You know you're building a relationship that's mutually beneficial, and when you get to the point where what you're offering them there's enough value, then you know, but that takes time, I think. I think I think a lot of people, both athletes and like content creators whether it's videography film or video or audio, or you know, it just takes time, man. Yeah, like way more time than you think, like way more time than you think I've heard that there's kind of like the overnight success that you often like hear about it.

Speaker 4: 22:19

And there's a creative who I listen to a lot of his work, chase Jarvis, and he talks about like the 10 year overnight success. Like most people that are overnight successes, they've been doing it for 10 years ahead of time and it was just like they've been doing all this work that, when the right opportunity came along, they were able to capitalize on it.

Speaker 3: 22:39

Yeah, that makes I? I absolutely agree with that and believe that and have observed that you know, you and I. Probably it's easier for us to recognize this initially. But this is all kind of a marketing plan, right, I mean, which is interesting, because I don't consider what you're doing with your Oregon Outdoor Athlete Project as a marketing. You know, pursuit, I guess, maybe in a one-off way, but it doesn't come off like you're out there capturing images of you know someone on atomic skis for atomic yeah.

Speaker 4: 23:16

Totally different intent behind the photo yeah, it's not the main goal at all. I think, there's some like side effects where that's been happening and in some ways it's a good way to just keep me accountable to producing more work, like the ultimate goal is. I want to have a hundred different athletes for this project and I try to do about one a week.

Speaker 3: 23:35

Oh, no way.

Speaker 4: 23:36

But, as you said, it's been a year now and I've done 33. So you know, um, you know it's hard to do it and I think I had just the biggest gap recently with, you know, the wildfire that was in really hot. So you kind of line up with shoots and then sometimes the weather doesn't work, and then lining up schedules with different athletes and when their schedule works, when mine works, it's just it's sometimes hard to make it all come together.

Speaker 4: 24:01

That's probably the most challenging part of the project so far is just like getting things lined up to go, yeah.

Speaker 3: 24:08

And I can relate with that, just trying to get people in the studio, studio, so like when it comes to like planning a river trip or a ski up Mount Jefferson, or like go out and climb some, you know, I can only imagine the logistical gymnastics and go on. Yeah, that's, that's, I didn't think about that. Yeah, I, I think it's really good to have goals with putting out stuff but also being incredibly gracious to yourself and flexible goals with putting out stuff but also being incredibly gracious to yourself and flexible. So I, for a while, I was trying to do every other Wednesday an episode which was working well, until, like, summer's been crazy, like I have three kids, like that's, it's all. It takes some time. I love it.

Speaker 3: 24:49

But so, yeah, this is the first podcast I've recorded since the one with Sarah which was like in mid July. So it's, I've been looking forward to this, cause it's fun, um. So I thought you know we could kind of start with your story back where you grew up, which was Wisconsin. I mean, we kind of we touched on that. You talked about your dad working, um, for GM. Do you have siblings too?

Speaker 4: 25:15

Yeah, I've got a brother who's two years younger and a sister who's four years younger. Do you have siblings too? Yeah, I've got a brother who's two years younger and a sister who's four years younger.

Speaker 3: 25:19

What are they up to?

Speaker 4: 25:22

My brother is starting a new job and going back to school now. He got his master's in brewing and distilling and is working at kind of the main brewery there, New Glarus, which is kind of world-renowned in some ways, but it just wasn't what he wanted to do.

Speaker 4: 25:39

I think, honestly, some of this project stems to talking to him, probably like a year and a half ago now. I was having a conversation and how he was liking his work and he's like, I don't know, it's kind of just like dad's GM, like I don't love it, but I'm going to do it until I retire. And I was just like dad's GM, like I don't love it, but I'm going to do it until I retire, and I was just like man. That sounds pretty shitty, like I would not want to look at my next 30 years of life and just think I see that I feel like is really chasing their passions, like learning new skills as an adult, challenging themselves, having big goals not just maybe following the plan they were told but they don't like is outdoor athletes.

Speaker 4: 26:25

Yeah, and that was a huge inspiration behind this project is just sharing these people that are following their passions, like how they got into it, what they learned from it, like what it gives to their cup. So I think a lot of my questions are kind of based around that idea. In and of itself, yeah, I think I also just yes, part of this goal is to get people to follow their passions, and I, whatever that is like. It doesn't have to be outdoor sports, right, it's just the lens that I see things through. Like if you're passionate about woodworking and like want to get super into that, and that's making you like learn new things, like have patience, like great yeah, speaking of those kind of experiences and you've you've kind of shared with me and with other people.

Speaker 3: 27:13

but it seems to me like this exposure to outdoor adventure and nature that you had through the Boy Scouts as a kid was, I mean, I've know you've shared that with many people but for our listeners who haven't heard that, maybe share that story about how Boy Scouts, um, specifically kind of that canoe expedition that you had in Alaska, kind of left such a big impression on you. I'm guessing that was part of the catalyst behind your redirect with school A little bit.

Speaker 4: 27:42

Yeah, I mean, I think I grew up my family just always went camping. That was a large part of our lives. I think at the time I was 18, I did the math and I'd spent a year of my life camping at that point.

Speaker 3: 27:55

And by camping, cause that means a lot of different things, a lot of different people In a tent.

Speaker 4: 28:00

I guess, um, at that point most of it would be like a drive up campground in a tent, um.

Speaker 4: 28:07

But just if it was, my family would go on a two week trip every summer, pretty much, to a state park in Wisconsin Peninsula State Park and we'd bring our bikes, we'd bring a canoe, like we'd go swimming in the water. It's kind of like we'd have two activities, like we'd hike in the morning and then we'd like swim in the afternoon or the next day it might be like bike and then swim. So we'd kind of just be doing stuff all the time. But we'd get there, we'd set up a tent like a dining canopy kind of all the stuff and we'd just be there for two weeks. So, yeah, you're in a car campground and stuff, but rain or shine, we're there for two weeks and I think that kind of makes you learn to deal with some of those conditions. And okay, it's rainy, like maybe we'll. Just I have memories of sitting in the tent and our mom like reading Little House in the Prairie to us, just like being there all afternoon and yeah man, yeah innocent.

Speaker 4: 29:04

I love that, but then I think that like got me more into Boy Scouts. Fortunately I was in a troop that did a lot of cool things and I think eighth grade freshman year we did this trip to Alaska and part of it was this seven day canoe trip on the Golcana River, which it wasn't even that long and we probably could have done it much faster, but it was just this river in the middle of Alaska and there weren't like established campsites. You kind of just like found a rock bar pulled up. That was it it didn't get dark at any time.

Speaker 4: 29:43

It was also my first experience in any kind of whitewater paddling, like I'd grown up paddling canoes on lakes and knew all the strokes and stuff for moving on flat water. But then all of a sudden you're moving in current and dodging rocks and that just felt so adventurous, like it was completely new, and I just have core memories of kind of the first day like we had to get across this lake but as soon as we crossed it then we were in this river on the start of it and we're like dodging rocks and watching out for trees that have fallen in the river and it was just felt so adventurous at the time.

Speaker 3: 30:19

Hell yeah, when you were sharing that story before the first thing that came to mind, did you ever see that movie in the 90s River Wild with Kevin Bacon?

Speaker 4: 30:28

I haven't Okay I should check it out. Yeah. I'll send you a link, okay.

Speaker 3: 30:33

Yeah, I mean it's called called river wild. He's kind of a guide, for I don't think they're boy scouts, but a group of young men that are on a similar type trip. Okay, yeah, and it's the best game in the world. It's a, there's a reason it's the most popular game in the world.

Speaker 4: 31:07

Yeah, and even growing up I some of these camping trips that I was telling you about, like I didn't want to go on cause I was like into soccer and all the practices in the summer. I'm like I'm going to miss this. I think getting out in nature I often enjoyed it once I was there but my main thing was soccer. And summer before, like senior year of high school, I was playing it like close to seven hours a day some days.

Speaker 7: 31:29

Like.

Speaker 4: 31:30

I ended up. What took me out of it eventually was just like overuse injuries. I had a stress fracture in my spine in high school Just from like, I think, the kick and the torque from that Cause I had a pretty powerful shot at the time. And then in college, my freshman year, I got stress fractures in both shins.

Speaker 3: 31:51

So you were playing in college.

Speaker 4: 31:52

A little bit yeah.

Speaker 3: 31:54

That's fun. Did you feel like, when that kind of season of life came to a close, like was your identity questioned?

Speaker 4: 32:06

Yeah, it was a weird time because it kind of ended and I knew I wasn't going to go on anymore and I was working out so much to like stay in shape for soccer and like eating healthy for that. And here I am, like a couple months into college and all of a sudden like kind of realizing that's done and like didn't work out for a couple of months and like was just like trying to find my place and eventually realized like I did like working out just for like the benefits of it in itself and started getting back slowly. But it's also the summer after that is when I applied to guide for the company in Alaska where I went on a trip with and that's kind of what brought me there. So it was the door of soccer closed and I was like okay, like what's the next best thing?

Speaker 3: 32:55

And I was like being in Alaska all summer would be cool, like let's see what that's like and I mean going back to your experience, right, Like you, probably it's safe to say you probably wouldn't have had the same response to that opportunity if you hadn't been up there.

Speaker 4: 33:10

Yeah, you know what I mean. Yeah, I wouldn't have even thought about it.

Speaker 3: 33:12

Yeah, so that. So that was what year were you in school when you went up there?

Speaker 4: 33:16

Actually, I think it was after my sophomore year I was 21 year and 21 the next, I think.

Speaker 3: 33:22

Okay.

Speaker 4: 33:23

But it was leading Boy Scouts, so it was a little different, though Like they probably should have had more experienced people on some of the stuff we were doing. They did give us training and there were no like major injuries or anything on my watch. But I mean we were doing trips flying into Gates of the Arctic National Park a park bigger than as big as Switzerland, I think, they say and there's no roads in it. And I remember our boss would tell us how far help was away by helicopter and I think that trip was like 12 hours, like you're out there If something happens.

Speaker 4: 33:59

That's remote, yeah, you're isolated so it might just be backpacking, but we had a bear get within like 10 feet of us there at one point so like I was going to ask in all your adventures, your interaction with wildlife, you know?

Speaker 4: 34:14

most of it was probably in Alaska when I was working there. That makes sense. I see a few mountain goats in the winter, like in the area. That's always fun. Like I was out on Three Finger Jack last year and one was like going up the mountain. So, it's cool when you have those moments.

Speaker 3: 34:29

Yeah, they're rare in Central Oregon. They're not the wildlife's, not like Idaho or Washington or you know even you know Wyoming or other areas? Do you spend most of your winter in Central Oregon or do you do a fair amount of traveling?

Speaker 4: 34:42

Right now it's mostly here. I'd love to start getting on some bigger trips and doing it, but it's, it's largely here.

Speaker 3: 34:49

Your time will come, man.

Speaker 4: 34:51

How old are you? 33. 33.

Speaker 3: 34:53

Yeah, so, and you moved to Bend in 2013. 33. 33. Yeah, yeah, so, and you moved to Bend in 2013. Yeah, right after college. Right after college, tell the story about how you were kind of on the medical school track and had a kind of pivoted to, not that.

Speaker 4: 35:06

Yeah, I mean. So. I, your junior year, you're supposed to take the MCAT and they at the time it might be different now recommended studying 300 hours for that in about a 10-week span.

Speaker 4: 35:18

So I was doing that on top of a normal semester and med school had always been plan B because I didn't have a plan A. I was good at science and people were like, oh, like you're good at science, you like the human body, because I was into working out and knew a lot about the human body. They're like you should be a doctor. And I was like, okay, like that'd be a good job. Um, didn't necessarily really think about it too much. It was just like, yeah, like I'm, I'm good at science, I can do that. And I think during that stretch of studying for the MCAT and being in a normal semester and just I felt like it was giving me a glimpse of what the next 10 years of my life was going to look like and I didn't like it. I was like I, that was also I had guided the summer before in Alaska and loved that. I was like I need to find plan A and not just go down this path. I was going down without really thinking about it.

Speaker 3: 36:16

What are your thoughts on that now?

Speaker 4: 36:22

It's mixed at times, you know, when you're like struggling financially and like thinking you'll never afford a house here. It can be like you can think like man, I wish I just had went. And I think also from I went to a pretty rigorous school, so from what I've heard from my friends who went on to med school like it was easier than our school, um, so part of me is like, uh, maybe I should have. But I ultimately come back to like the happiness I have doing what I'm doing now, and it just it wouldn't be the same.

Speaker 3: 36:57

It can be at times it can be a struggle, though Everything has a trade-off, because I can.

Speaker 4: 37:02

I can always be working, it's easy to be like anytime I'm doing an adventure, it's rare that I leave the camera behind.

Speaker 3: 37:09

Yeah, I get that.

Speaker 4: 37:10

It can always feel like it's work and I've gotten a little better recently at leaving the camera behind from time to time, and that's the downside, but the upside's worth it.

Speaker 3: 37:24

When did you first start shooting photos?

Speaker 4: 37:27

Yeah, I started in Alaska. You did, because I had a camera I took up there.

Speaker 4: 37:31

When you were guiding up there when I was guiding up there um, and because especially up there so it's light out 24 hours of the day most of the time. I was there and if you're backpacking all summer as a guide like you, kind of get used to it and you're not as tired. So the clients you backpack, you know there, because it's not on a trail they recommend, like Denali National Park, will say like shoot for like five to six miles a day instead of like the eight to 12 a normal backpacker might do. So there you get through six miles. The group's wiped, they're in bed like eight, nine o'clock. I would hike around a little bit with some of the other guides, like take shots and just get shots along the way.

Speaker 3: 38:12

And this was digital. Yeah, it was early digital.

Speaker 4: 38:17

Yeah, so it definitely started back then, because I would take photos on each trip and then I'd like get back and want to share them on Facebook like back in the day, like a.

Speaker 4: 38:27

Facebook album. I don't think that's a thing anymore, but yeah, I remember kind of each trip. I would love taking the photos because, being from Wisconsin, like I'd been there once before, but that was so new to me and so cool and I was like so stoked on what I was doing. I just wanted to share it each week and be like look at this cool stuff that.

Speaker 3: 38:46

I'm seeing. Yeah, I kind of viewed your pivot from from kind of the school to kind of more academic pursuits, to more of this kind of outdoor, kind of largely unknown at the time, kind of as kind of like your call to adventure, you know, like if you were to kind of follow like like a hero's journey story structure like that pivot, that like hey, I'm going to do something way outside of what I was planning on doing and like we're going for it you know, so you went from Alaska kind of group leading to then you moved here in 2013 to pursue wilderness therapy opportunities working as a counselor?

Speaker 4: 39:30

Yeah, I worked as a field staff at a wilderness therapy company.

Speaker 3: 39:34

How did you come to kind of land in on that and doing that here?

Speaker 4: 39:39

yeah, a few things. So one is I was dating someone at the time and we were both kind of like, well, if it was, it kind of came out like if I got a job somewhere she would come with yeah um, and.

Speaker 4: 39:53

but she also stated like I don't want to be moving every three months, which a lot of guide stuff is, like you do the river and then you do the mountain and you're moving and something that I found that was year-round was wilderness therapy and I think through the other guiding that I did, I was running into a lot of clients who were struggling with different like mental health issues and you don't really as a normal guide having talked with other guides now because I work with them a lot you don't get a lot of training on how to deal with that stuff and I kind of wanted to be in an environment where I would learn how to deal with those things in kind of the outdoor space.

Speaker 3: 40:32

And when you say those things like just different personalities.

Speaker 4: 40:35

Yeah, I mean, the extreme was I had a trip where like a father and son like got in a fist fight and we almost had to like call in a helicopter to like remove them, and it was like, if this happens again, like you are out like we don't. We are in the middle of nowhere. We're not fist fighting Right Out here.

Speaker 3: 40:52

Like that was in Alaska. Yeah, so like, so like, yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 4: 40:57

so conflict yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was some of it, but also just definitely worked with some kids on the spectrum like um, just lack of confidence in self. You know things that maybe wouldn't be diagnosable, but you know their struggles and learning how to like talk with people and approach that um, it was an interest to like.

Speaker 4: 41:21

I also love getting outside and having those real conversations I think when you're you know I talk about this with people I go with now when you're on a river or something and you're trusting somebody else with your life and situations, when you get to the campfire, at the end of the day, you're not just like talking about like little things, like you're having deeper conversations. And that was something I was seeking and it seemed like wilderness therapy. I was going to have a bunch of those conversations.

Speaker 3: 41:50

Lots of opportunity to communicate with lots of different personalities.

Speaker 4: 41:53

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 41:53

Yeah, that's super cool. So you put me in touch with your really good friend, Lindsay and this is my style man. So put your headphones on, because she was super fun to talk with and had some cool stuff to share about the first time you guys met. Because you guys met, it sounds like, during intake day of your very first wilderness therapy job for both of you.

Speaker 7: 42:20

We were walking into a wilderness therapy job interview and actually the first place I met Ben was at a clinic the day before our orientation interview was going to begin because we had to get medically cleared. And so, if you hear him tell the story, I walk into the clinic, I'm wearing like all black mohawk, I have an eyebrow ring, just looking like this Portland punk person coming in to do this wilderness therapy job, and I tell the story that I see this guy in like shorts with lobsters on them and boat shoes, also like some guy off the East Coast going into this wilderness therapy job interview. The fun fact about that is I do not have an eyebrow ring and he was not wearing shorts with lobsters on them. So we obviously had some pretty big assumptions about one another.

Speaker 7: 43:13

And then, yeah, the next day we were on an eight day journey together doing this orientation for wilderness therapy, which is pretty intense to just walk into the middle of nowhere desert in Oregon with a bunch of strangers and inevitably be asked to learn a bunch of skills that are in addition to backpacking. Right At the time, all of us had been backpacking and camping and and done whatever outdoor adventure we loved, but now we're adding skills like boat drilling, fires and emotional management and being vulnerable and we were put on kind of like a mini solo where inevitably, you know, the joke later was that we thought they were trying to trick us because they didn't give us enough water.

Speaker 7: 43:57

And it's July 2nd in the Oregon desert and all of us have different stories about how we made that one Nalgene last for 24 hours. When we finished working at Wilderness Therapy together two years ago, we were directors of the agency that we were working for, directors of the agency that we were working for. So we had come, you know, through leaps and bounds of experience, not only in the wilderness but also adding on to our quiver of Central Oregon outdoor sports. But yeah, I mean, if the story starts with, here's this East Coaster with boat shoes and little Portland punk. You know, beyond learning, how much resilience we were able to handle with the elements, right, like, I think, one of our shifts. There was just this period of time where, like the highest it got over the period of five days was like six degrees.

Speaker 7: 44:47

And we were like sleeping with our tuna packets and our cheese to keep them from freezing, just like some of the weird stuff that we had to do to just survive. You know, not survive in like the hyperbolic sense, but just like have food, have water, be able to use the bathroom, and that kind of stuff was just so silly and you know stories that don't even feel believable. And then, on top of that, being in an environment where we're dealing with a little bit more complex individuals that are searching for themselves and connection and mental health treatment. So the spectrum of skills and resiliency is that we developed is just absolutely remarkable and some of the things that you know.

Speaker 7: 45:34

Ben and I did the rogue last year rafting and on the first day he flipped his boat and, just you know, popped up. His face was there's no fear, if anything. It's just like, oh man, I know what I should have done better, I messed that up. When you're also looking at like hey, man, we got to get the boat and like flip it back over and he's just perfect calmness, beating himself up more than anything. And then on the final day, I sliced my hand open on something stupid and just like, very casually, was like, hey, can you help me bandage it up? It's like blood dripping everywhere and him and I are just casually dealing with these two things that I think you know 11 years ago would have been like ah panic, and just being in that situation with him reminded me of just how much we are capable of handling. Hi, my name is Lindsay Boss. I met Ben in 2013 when I moved to Oregon, and have known him ever since.

Speaker 3: 46:34

It's hard to believe that's almost 13 or 12 years ago, that's insane yeah, it's been a while.

Speaker 4: 46:42

And her story yeah, we both have such different stories about that experience and it's funny. And I think also what she doesn't talk about is the average tenure in wilderness therapy for a field staff in the industry is like four months.

Speaker 3: 46:56

Yeah, I was reading about wilderness therapy a little bit like how it started. When it started I didn't realize you know it was the first and you may or may not know this, but I thought it was interesting, was the very first time there was kind of documented scientific kind of cause effect on people with some degree of cognitive condition was I think it was a mental health hospital in upstate. New York back in 1900.

Speaker 3: 47:23

And there was a outbreak of tuberculosis. So they put the people with TB out in tents outside and they started to see this improvement in terms of behavior. Shocker, but yeah. And then in the sixties, like outward bound kind of got it going and you know, I mean, yeah, I mean it sounds like it's a pretty short career window for people.

Speaker 4: 47:47

And talk about that. Well, and both Lindsay and I spent more than five years. I spent five years in the field, which is like unheard of. She was in the office a little sooner than me but spent a lot of time out there. But it's also interesting because the industry's under a lot of scrutiny right now. A lot of the kids don't necessarily choose to be there. I ultimately think it helps them. I think there's definitely some trauma that comes of it. When you've got you're a parent and you've got a 14-year-old who's doing heroin and they don't want to go to somewhere to get treatment, do you force them to? Do you just let them keep doing the choices they're making? And there's differences Not everyone's that extreme, but and there's talk that like that's abusive towards the kids and there's definitely trauma that comes to it. I think being there like the trauma I saw was with staff, because there's a lot of kids that like think if they're violent towards staff they're going to get out and to a certain point that's true, but it often isn't true.

Speaker 4: 48:54

The first time, true, the first time, so there's a lot of staff that got attacked and normally staff leave, from my experience, out of trauma. So there's just a lot that goes on with that job.

Speaker 3: 49:06

You learned a ton in that chapter of your life. Do you draw on that regularly?

Speaker 4: 49:12

Yeah, I think. Looking back I'm like I wish I did it for two years and learned all the lessons and maybe escaped without some of the trauma I got from staying around. Yeah, that makes sense Ton of life lessons that just are useful in my day-to-day and relationships kind of in anyone I interact with.

Speaker 3: 49:31

Kind of emotional fluency. Yeah, yeah, man, what do you think I mean in your experience? I was curious, like what do you think is kind of the most influential kind of aspect of that experience that kind of can prompt change in people's behavior? Like you know, I think of outdoor wilderness therapy. You think there's probably got to be a fair amount of like teamwork associated, working with people, kind of learning new skills these and Lindsay even talked about like both fires and primitive skills. I mean that stuff. I like I don't think people know how hard that is. Yeah, like it's hard to make a fire with a bow.

Speaker 4: 50:11

Yeah, you get good at it.

Speaker 3: 50:12

I'm sure you do.

Speaker 4: 50:13

The gold standard is six seconds.

Speaker 3: 50:16

That's pretty, that's fast. Cut that in half at one point. You got six seconds. That's pretty, that's fast. And I cut that in half at one point. You got three seconds Wow.

Speaker 4: 50:21

Yeah, yeah, which is fun. When you get into it, it's fun. But yeah, that's its own separate thing. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 50:28

But then you have kind of this like the exposure to just nature and elements and kind of that kind of personal self-development that goes through undergoing and going through moments of discomfort, like I'm a huge fan of. I think there's so much value in being uncomfortable and that's what I think. This to me, that looks like what's happening.

Speaker 4: 50:50

Yeah, I think so. It depends on the groups that you work with and I. There were different groups based on the therapist of like kids kind of same age, same issues. They're working on same sex, um, and I ended up working a lot more with the adolescent boys or young adults who, um were dealing with drug abuse, um, so a lot of the program for them was just drug use doesn't.

Speaker 4: 51:15

I mean, it can happen when you're happy, but a lot of drug abuse is like things are shitty. You want to feel different, um, so a lot of the work out there was like it's uncomfortable being out there, like you can't change nature, like you can manipulate your parents. You can't manipulate the snow that's coming, like you've got to deal with it. So a lot of the work out there was you're just going to be uncomfortable and you're not going to have your drugs, like you have to find other ways to cope with things. And that was a lot of the work. Like there's different meditation, like techniques, different ways of like dealing with things and looking at things, and like planning ahead that we can teach certain skills that might help with it. But ultimately, like the journey is is theirs, whoever's out there of like how? How do I get through this hard thing when I can't turn to the drugs I used to be turning to?

Speaker 3: 52:47

Is there like a debrief process, like where you sit down and kind of process, kind of what you learned or what people you know, like what the yeah, yeah Daily Multiple times.

Speaker 4: 53:01

I mean yeah, you're.

Speaker 3: 53:04

But like after the whole thing, like kind of a more formal like I've always been curious about that I mean.

Speaker 4: 53:11

so they're meeting with therapists once a week and the therapists often do like a session back at base where they're kind of with the kid's family with every not necessarily the staff, so I didn't really see that that much. But they do a wrap up with the therapist and we do different ceremonies throughout as they're progressing. And there were like ceremonies we do at the throughout, as they're progressing, and there were like ceremonies we do at the end, as they're finishing and graduating. Do you have?

Speaker 3: 53:35

any cool stories of like do you keep in touch with? Is that unprofessional Like? Or have people got back in touch with you later in life?

Speaker 4: 53:43

There's definitely been some that have reached out. We weren't supposed to keep in touch with any of the youth, some of the adults, the therapists there. I to keep in touch with any of the youth, some of the adults, the therapists there, I think is actually a mutual friend of ours, at least on Facebook. Okay, griff.

Speaker 3: 53:58

Okay, I don't know.

Speaker 4: 53:59

Used to be a therapist out there and he at times would have us like connect with people who are in town and stuff. Yeah. But I mean, there's one kid I think about and I remember him getting to the program. He had keistered meth and it burst in his butt so he was like hallucinating in the hospital because he he went to I forget the really good music school in Boston. Yeah, got addicted to heroin. His parents pulled him out of that school, brought him back to California.

Speaker 4: 54:31

He then kind of was continuing down this path. Parents kicked him out of the house. He was homeless, ends up with that meth, then ends up in the hospital. Like parents while he's in that state convince him to go to this rehab. He gets to the program and they're supposed to be detoxed before they get into the program. He was, I remember him like leaning against a tree, like staring up at the sky for like three days, just like being out of it, and every week I kept coming back to that same group and seeing him and he was like getting more and more with it and yeah, he went to an aftercare in bend and got really into climbing.

Speaker 4: 55:12

So his therapist was like hey, you want to go like climbing with him? I was like yeah, so I was doing that a little bit and now he's like a sober touring musician. It's incredible like living his dream, so it's it's cool when you can have those connections and see those stories and I was at hugh's wedding and saw him there and like it was good to catch up.

Speaker 3: 55:31

What a trip man. And hear what he's doing, yeah, yeah, that's super rad. That's super rad. Yeah, hugh's another guy that you put me in touch with, that, um, I mean, I it was really fun to kind of have a conversation with him after reading his profile because he was one of kind of your first athletes. Yeah, before we start talking more about kind of your, you know where you're at now and what you're doing, and even Lindsay mentioned up until two years ago. So at some point you were like it's time for me to move out of this kind of wilderness therapy world.

Speaker 4: 56:09

Yeah, the company I was working for actually ended up closing its branch here. And I kind of took that as like a sign it's time to jump off. Cause I was like it's a good setup in a way, if you work eight days on and then you have six days off, so you can take those six days off and get out a lot and um, at the point where I was, I had three weeks of vacation a year.

Speaker 4: 56:31

So when you take one week off, you get the week before and after it off too, so you've got 21 days. So like three times a year I could do like a three-week trip, Like I could go up to like Squamish and the Bugaboos or something, and climb.

Speaker 4: 56:44

So that was a good setup and it kind of kept me staying with it. Have the steady paycheck, like know that. And when it finally closed it's like okay, I've been like trying to fit different brand shoots in here and there, like it might just be time to like take the leap and go for it.

Speaker 3: 57:02

Was that scary?

Speaker 4: 57:04

Yeah, yeah, it was. It was helpful to you know losing a job because it closed, like you get unemployment to you know losing a job because it closed, like you get unemployment. Oregon has a I forget what it's through like a starting a business plan for like on new employment, so like interesting.

Speaker 4: 57:18

You can kind of get your unemployment as you're starting a business and like you have to have a business plan and different check-ins every week. But it was cool to like turn this like losing a job into like building the career I want yeah, forward out of it.

Speaker 3: 57:34

Well, what's the name of your business is?

Speaker 4: 57:36

it is just Ben Kitching Photography LLC kept it simple, didn't have to like find a name to trademark like your own name.

Speaker 3: 57:45

You can, you can use so so you're I mean that's now you're shooting photos for a living I love it, I love it.

Speaker 3: 57:53

I guess you know you work with a lot of outdoor athletes and professionals and industry professionals and other content creators and you know we live in like central oregon, which obviously and I forget this just because I've lived here for so long now Like when you're just in it, you forget how unique this place is in terms of the level of athleticism and talent and across such a broad range of sport.

Speaker 3: 58:19

You know, and and and yet, like a lot of people are moving here without kind of the exposure earlier in life or experience to kind of get into these sports, but the way that our community portrays them is like mostly upper level stuff. So there's this huge disconnect between entry and like what you see on social media or the photos that brands use to market. You know. So you know a huge part of that is the learning process and there's rad like different groups of people in town like intro to mountain biking and I'm sure there's a ton of intro to climbing stuff, I mean, but a lot of it comes down to mentorship and kind of learning from people who know what they're doing. What's that like, you think, for people in this town anymore?

Speaker 2: 59:14

Cause I'm so out of touch with it, like you think people show up and they're just like man.

Speaker 3: 59:18

Where do I even start?

Speaker 4: 59:20

Well, I think that's so. In doing this project, I like to share how people got into the sport.

Speaker 4: 59:25

Cause, I think there can be such the barrier of that. And I think a lot of people I talked to are like searching for mentors or struggling to find that. Like how, how do I find the crew to get out with? Like I want to go skiing, like how do I make that happen?

Speaker 4: 59:39

And, um, one of the athletes I talked to, allie, I really liked her, her like insight on that and I think it is very much what I did of like she's just like I try to be the good partner, like I try to show up, I try to have snacks, like I try to make sure, like I'm bringing the stoke, like, and also talked about I'm going to show up, cause I think I've run into a few different people where they like, wanted to, and then they bail last minute and after you know one or two times of that, I'm like, okay, I'm not going to keep asking you because I'm like planning my day on this and you're the partner I have.

Speaker 4: 1:00:16

So when you tell me you'll get out, and then last minute you don't, and now I can't get out this day, that leaves a sour taste. So I think with snow sports, I'll like add the caveat of like don't plan a specific objective because avalanche conditions are changing, like maybe have an ABC plan in mind or be like, hey, like let's plan on getting out this day, we'll see what conditions are the night before and make a plan that works with it. But I think a huge part one is just showing up when you say you will Like.

Speaker 4: 1:00:48

There's another part of like putting yourself out there. I think there are a lot of great groups around and a lot of people seem to have utilized those, because it's the question I'm asking a lot like how did you get into it? Um, so I think there are those groups, but this project for me was also an excuse to reach out to 100 new people because I was running into it one winter I, you know, had the time to get out. It was kind of that first year where I was full-time doing photography and I was like itching to get out all the time but my two main partners had just moved away that winter and I was like, what do I do now? And it was like I just didn't, couldn't get out as much. And a selfish motivation in this project is like I'm gonna meet a hundred new people out of it. Like I've gotten into like cool trips already this year from the people I've met that wouldn't have happened and, um, some of that's, I have photography that I can bring to offer them.

Speaker 4: 1:01:43

But everyone's got something they can offer and like plan to do so like find that thing and and bring it.

Speaker 3: 1:01:50

You shared with me how one of those people and we mentioned him, hugh was kind of your kind of most influential person that you've learned stuff from on the river Cause. One thing I asked you was mentors that you've had and you kind of you just touched on it. You've kind of taken little bits and pieces from all these different opportunities that you've uniquely positioned yourself to do. You know which is cool. Most people it's like one or two people.

Speaker 3: 1:02:15

So, to get this like really unique exposure to all these people that are very proficient and safe, in the mountains or on the river, what they do, to see how they do it, how they operate. That's awesome, man. Yeah yeah, that's like a book in and of itself. Yeah, Hugh, how they operate. That's that's awesome man. Yeah yeah, that's like a book in and of itself. Um, yeah, Hugh, man, Hugh, put on your headphones.

Speaker 6: 1:02:39

This is my eighth summer guiding and this is the first time. That was the first time someone has asked me to row their boat so they could take photos of me, uh, which I always thought was kind of funny. Usually, you know, you bring in your own gear. People are asking to borrow your stuff. So that was pretty fun and we just went out for the day on the Moppin' Deschutes stretch and just kind of played around and then did a little interview at the end on the drive home and yeah, it was a lot of fun. It was cool to kind of put some intentionalness into like a day of floating. Yeah, I think I was one of his first like five or something like that. I think he was just starting with mostly friends that he knew who were already into, you know, outdoor sports and I think he was just kind of getting the ball rolling when we did it. But yeah, it was a lot of fun.

Speaker 6: 1:03:25

Ben wants to get in the minds of people who already do all this stuff that they find fun, of people who already do all this stuff that they find fun. Like you know, like spending your time in the outdoors and doing sports is like the main reason everyone does is for fun, but I imagine there's a certain level. Just knowing Ben, he's a pretty deep thinker and like a well-thought-out individual and so I think ultimately he's probably trying to shed light on like why people go out in the outdoors and like kind of shed light on the community and like the wants and needs that people are fulfilling by doing outdoor tasks and like maybe finding other ways to. I always think back to like mental health, like you know, trying to get into the world, the mind of outdoor athletes and kind of where they're at and what they get out of the outdoors and kind of bridging connection there.

Speaker 6: 1:04:11

It's been fun to see this project because I've known Ben for a long time and he's always been really into photography and like storytelling and I think this is something he mentioned long ago as like an idea. But then now it's, like you know, it's kind of like a snowball that's been rolling downhill for a while now. It's funny, I'd say the big thing was like I went to my parents. Now it's funny, I'd say the big thing was like I went to my parents. My parents live in Bend and I went over to their house and my mom had I think it was Bend Magazine had some of Bend's photos in it for a story about like protecting rivers and watersheds and I was like the picture was like a half underwater, half out of the water picture of me on Bend's boat and it was like this huge picture in the magazine. My mom had like eight copies of the magazine, one in every room.

Speaker 6: 1:04:53

It's open to my page. For me it's been really cool to have like photos of what I do and what I like to do, kind of like what you were saying about getting to hear your friend talk about you. It's like kind of cool. You know, I've lived in a lot of places before Ben and I have a lot of friends from all over the world who you know, you tell them you raft or you, you know that's like your hobby.

Speaker 6: 1:05:12

They're like, but you know what does that even mean? Like are you floating like the town, float and bend, or are you doing like waterfalls, and it's? It's kind of cool to just have like photos of of myself that people can see and I can look at them, cause a lot of you know, my summers are so revolved around rafting, but you don't really get to remember a lot of it. You're just kind of working it. Yeah, just talking to Ben about each person Like oh, who's that? That's pretty cool.

Speaker 6: 1:05:36

It's like working with big names in the Bend outdoor world and it's kind of fun to see where he's getting to, versus just doing interviews with his friends, which is kind of what I was when we first started. Yeah, that's been kind of the fun part for me. One of the things that I'm thinking about is like how this has been. Ben's thing is like, you know, starting with friends and moving on to just like athletes in general, how he's always interviewing and taking photos of other people, which I know everybody always appreciates. But it's really cool to have somebody doing a piece on Ben, because he's, you know, kind of spends a lot of his time doing quote unquote pieces for other people and I'm really excited to get to hear more about him and get him interviewed and stuff like that.

Speaker 3: 1:06:22

I like you man.

Speaker 4: 1:06:23

Yeah, he's a good dude, yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:06:24

I can tell, yeah, I'm excited. My hope is that all your friends and your network of people that you've worked with and I'm sure that you've, in the time you've spent with them, um, outdoors, a lot of this will be. You know, they've heard before, but hopefully some of it's new for them, you know.

Speaker 4: 1:07:09

I actually finished an interview with somebody last week, um, or this weekend, and was like we were just talking about part of why I'm doing it, and I was talking about like yeah, what I was telling you about wanting to meet new people and like have more people to get out with, and I was like, and then I have these interviews and I learn a ton about them and like we become friends and it's like well, actually, I guess it's kind of one way, so like in the car on the way home, like you can ask me any of the questions and we'll like reverse it.

Speaker 3: 1:07:43

So it was like kind of cool to do some of that too, yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:07:45

Nice. Was there anything that like surprised you about that?

Speaker 3: 1:07:47

They were kind of using some of the same questions that I did.

Speaker 4: 1:07:48

So, it wasn't a wasn't a major surprise.

Speaker 3: 1:07:51

Is there a fair amount of like mental health motivation behind a lot of the people that you've worked with, like in terms of like this is my outlet. Like, if I don't do this, my life suffers, like my personal life.

Speaker 4: 1:08:07

I mean I'm happier when I am out doing all these things.

Speaker 4: 1:08:11

I think something I'm personally working on is I value my productivity too much, like I tie my happiness to my productivity like more than I probably should. So like when I'm getting out and creating work, like it's easy to feel better about myself, yeah Of, like I'm doing something, like I'm taking these steps, and sometimes, when I don't like, when I don't have athletes for a week or it's a bit of a gap, it can be hard to be like feel like it can be easy to fall into, like feeling stuck or different things. So I think having this project, having this motivation, this excuse to reach out to people, does help with that in some ways. I think there's work I can do outside of that. So I'm not just tying my value to my productivity, um, but I also, I think, in transitioning away from med school to this, was like realizing that the summers where I was just living out of a backpack, guiding like I had two bags in Alaska that I could, you know, take on a plane there and that was it.

Speaker 4: 1:09:15

And that was when I was happiest, you know, and the moments I'm happiest now are often in the back country and when I'm camping out and yeah, I, I, I like having a home base and being here and Ben and having a place to return to. But I get so much happiness outside of just productivity from these adventures too.

Speaker 3: 1:09:37

Is that similar Like do some of the athletes that you work with have kind of similar, whether they're pro athletes trying to get content and considering their that, their productivity, or I mean cause there's a there's a mental health trend to really high functioning athletic people. In my opinion, based on what I've observed, you know, it's like if I don't do my thing, like I feel it in my life.

Speaker 4: 1:10:02

Yeah, I mean, one of the questions I ask every person is like how does your sport? Like how does this affect your mental health? And just about everyone. It has a different way. It helps them, like maybe it's confidence, maybe it's a way to just like get some energy out, like it's a different answer for everybody, but it seems to play into it.

Speaker 4: 1:10:21

I think also one of the motivations when starting this project there's like six to eight of them probably was like I almost have this hypothesis that outdoor sports create better humans. Why, figure it out? You can't just go to the store and get a new one and it's like a different way of thinking. That, I think, for me, made me smarter in that respect. I think every time I walk up to a mountain, I look at it, I'm just like the audacity I have to like think I can climb that. It's like it's really intimidating. And then you break it down into these small steps and like you just keep going and you know you're like, okay, I can, I get to that point, can I get to the next one? And you know, sometimes you turn around, you don't make it, but other times you do, and it's just what seemed impossible when you were at the base of. It is now possible and that confidence for me like carries on for the next couple of weeks, oftentimes For sure.

Speaker 3: 1:11:35

Yeah that that creates a better human.

Speaker 4: 1:11:37

yeah, for sure, yeah so part of me is like I don't know if uh, correlation versus causation, like, is it just quote unquote, like better people that get into outdoor sports, or is it? Is it making it? But I think I, yeah, love the people of this outdoor community I love sharing, sharing their stories.

Speaker 3: 1:11:56

Have your reasons evolved, as you're 33 episodes into this, like one of the reasons that I think I read and I would argue there's parallels with what I'm doing is you know how do you get good at something? Well, you got to do it. You know how do you get good at something? Well, you got to do it. You know, and if you, if you're trying to do it regularly, you're getting those reps, and it goes back to kind of what we were saying earlier, I guess, about most things take 10 years to kind of, you know, have a success.

Speaker 4: 1:12:27

That's for sure a motivation like wanting to. I think there's other photographers that I've looked up to and a lot of them have talked about how having a big personal project early in their career really set them on the right path, got them out a lot, got them just like doing it and I think, yeah, I've touched a little bit like trying to get another episode out every week. Like doesn't always happen, but it keeps me out, keeps me shooting, keeps me like meeting people practicing my craft.

Speaker 3: 1:12:57

Yeah, do you record your interviews? Yeah, like on just your phone.

Speaker 4: 1:13:02

It depends. So it started out just on like a recorder with a little like lav mic, and then I often now I have AI transcribe it Okay.

Speaker 6: 1:13:11

Which saves me some time.

Speaker 3: 1:13:12

Yeah, no doubt.

Speaker 4: 1:13:13

One of the athletes actually does some film stuff and he's like he realized I was just like transcribing it myself at the time. It's like yo, I've been using this ai at work. I was like, okay, cool, like let me check it out for you know, like 12 bucks a month I save myself.

Speaker 3: 1:13:29

Like two hours per episode at least like yeah that's interesting yeah, it's funny because, like there's several different podcasts, kind of hosting platforms where you upload your episode once you have it finalized and you know it will for added, you know cost. It will analyze the audio AI and spit out all your social media posts and blog posts and I don't really use a lot of that periphery content to market this, but a lot of people do and you know it's. It's insane how quick it like, how you know, and it's pretty decent stuff it's not great.

Speaker 4: 1:14:14

I was going to say there's, I still have to like proofread and it's pretty decent stuff. Yeah, it's not great. I was going to say there's, I still have to like.

Speaker 3: 1:14:17

Oh yeah.

Speaker 6: 1:14:18

Proofread and it doesn't know all the outdoor terms and their stuff.

Speaker 4: 1:14:21

And yeah, I hear like when some of that stuff is selecting things, I'm like I kind of like making the choice on like what quotes like. I don't know that I would trust it.

Speaker 3: 1:14:31

Well, it brings up an interesting subject which is, like you know, the creative process and kind of how you delegate some of that when you use AI.

Speaker 3: 1:14:41

You know and it's, you know it goes back right to what we were talking about, about it's a lot more comfortable and easier and quick, is it better? That's you know, arguably you know. But yeah, it's interesting, man, and that's starting to affect. I mean, yeah, ai is obviously is in all sorts of different industries. We're starting to see it in healthcare in unique ways, which is everywhere from like staffing assistance, because like the trends in kind of support staff in healthcare for multiple different reasons are.

Speaker 3: 1:15:18

I mean anyone who's tried to, you know, go to their healthcare provider in Central Oregon in the last couple of years has experienced a significant difference in how things operate compared to 10 years ago. I mean just whether the like time to access and or how long it takes to make an appointment or just get through on a telephone or get a call back or get lab results. I mean and and it's a large part of it is just staffing shortages. You know it's insane. So, like how tech starting to like fill some of that gap is is, I mean, I get it's cool, but it's like I don't know, it's weird, it's a slippery slope man.

Speaker 4: 1:16:02

They just don't know as much yet. And there's some weird yeah Well, I don't know, or that knows too much you know.

Speaker 3: 1:16:09

So yeah, so how is it? Talk a little bit about like you know. I mean, if you think about you're going on a climb you know, say you're. I forget the person's name, but it was one of my favorite. I forget who it was. He was climbing like some. It was almost like pillars. It wasn't out at Smith Rock, it was a unique rock.

Speaker 4: 1:16:35

Oh out at Trout Creek, probably it could have been. It could. A unique rock oh out at Trout Creek, probably it could have been. It could have been Joel.

Speaker 3: 1:16:39

Yeah, that sounds right. But you know, like when you approach a day, you know if you carpool out and you're, you know, getting to know these people. Do you guys formulate a game plan? Do you kind of have an outline in your head of how you want to capture the story you want to tell, or is that what's your process, man?

Speaker 4: 1:16:59

Yeah, so this project is maybe a little different than if I were to shoot for a brand.

Speaker 3: 1:17:04

Yeah, maybe go through two different scenarios.

Speaker 4: 1:17:17

So, like with this project I'm, when I reach out to the athletes and they're stoked on doing it and we agree to meet up sometime, I'm kind of asking them like, hey, what, what fires you up? Like, where do you like? What kind of climbing do you like to do? What kind of skiing, snowboarding, like where's an area that you'd love to have photos? Um, so this project is in some ways a little more like documentary style than like planned ahead of time, kind of like what do you think is cool? Like what do you want photos on? Like, and a lot of these athletes, like, especially some of the better ones, like they've, you know, grown up, like reading the magazines, like they know areas that are going to be scenic, so like if they're stoked on an area I can show up and kind of figure it out yeah, um, so a lot of it's.

Speaker 4: 1:17:55

Yeah, I show up kind of talk through them of their plan, like if it's skiing, like what kind of line they're going to do, and then think of like how I can get in position.

Speaker 4: 1:18:05

If it's climbing, I often like to get above them on shots so you can like see the face or at least be equal, like looking up from below taking photos of their butt, like isn't going to be a cool photo doesn't give you any like scope, yeah, you know, yeah, so, and then, um, kind of figuring out what angle I can get, like what lens is going to be best for that um, and getting in the right spot and yeah, I'll go out, take most days like 500 to a thousand photos and then normally takes me and we'll do an interview normally afterwards at the end. I've started videoing those. Oh wow, um, just because the algorithm like reels, it might, might help for sure, um.

Speaker 4: 1:18:52

So that's something I'm starting to play around now it hasn't isn't happening on everyone, but it's happening on some of them. And then it takes me like a day to a day and a half of like going through the photos, making the selections, editing them, going through the quotes, kind of getting everything up on the website and planning some posts for the week.

Speaker 3: 1:19:16

Yeah, I love it. So that's, that's the athlete project. And then like contrast that with like I'm, you know, I'm, I don't know Chaco Doing the road river for Chaco. Yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:19:30

Yeah, that's a little different Cause I, especially rivers, I try to do which wasn't the case with the, the Oahe in some ways Like I try to do ones that I know and that I like know what they're like at certain levels so I can kind of plan like the hero shots I want and know where they're going to be. Um, I'm always trying to capture the in-between and get those moments. Um, but, like on the Rogue River, there's a rapid called Coffee Pot. At one point it narrows to, I think like 13 feet wide when it's at like low levels, like most my raft is 13 feet long, so you turn it sideways like it just barely squeezes through there and the current's flowing through there you can't really stop. So I barely squeezes through there and the current's flowing through there, you can't really stop.

Speaker 4: 1:20:48

So I on a shoot, knew for nrs actually knew I wanted a photo of that. So and you're kind of lining up like okay, I'm gonna go through this on the first boat, get through. Like then I'm gonna climb up this canyon. At the end, like run back along the trail that's up there, drop down to the river and radio you when I'm ready. If the radio doesn't work, like try to give me at least half an hour and then I'll be in position. So there's certain shots like that that you know you want that you really have to have everyone else like wait for and on those trips, like they're getting paid or like covered, so they're a part of it too and know there's going to be waiting, but a lot of it too. And no, there's going to be waiting, right, but a lot of these. I'm just trying to like get it out and make it like the athlete project.

Speaker 4: 1:21:32

I'm trying to make it fun and easy for the athletes with like less of that, like stalling and kind of planning it out. This is fun, man yeah Um have you thought about doing a podcast A little bit. Yeah, yeah, uh, some of the athletes I've been with have said that I should. Yeah, um, it's one of those things, I just don't have the time right now, you know? Yeah, I know firsthand Where's the, where's the priority and what do I want to put it on?

Speaker 3: 1:22:01

And well, you're kind of already doing it really. I mean, if really you could just turn your post-adventure interview into a 45-minute kind of podcast to supplement it in terms of just kind of building another outlet of your content.

Speaker 4: 1:22:22

And there's also something cool kind of the hearing from the story behind the images you know, and there's thought, and as I maybe I'm not having to like hustle as hard to get stuff, I've thought about kind of adding that into this. There's some it's also been cool where I like see this going, I think even after I finish 100, I'm going to keep doing it. I just won't be like as on, like on as much of a timeline. But I also am starting to want to make the transition into video more and more.

Speaker 4: 1:22:57

And this is a cool way to get little stories that. I can then get out with somebody, get of intro, do photos and then if it was a cool story they've got like maybe next time we can get out and find a way to like do a little film around that for sure.

Speaker 3: 1:23:14

And then you can like overlay audio over the you know the video or just the photos and like yeah it creates another kind of texture to the content. Man, it's super cool. I'm excited for you. What are you? Are you wanting to shoot more of the same, or do you want to start branching out into, like different types of sport or an adventure A?

Speaker 4: 1:23:41

little bit. So I kind of break it down to two things that I really love shooting. One is outdoor athletes, yeah, and the other is backcountry trips.

Speaker 7: 1:23:50

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:23:52

And like looking at a personal project and like wanting to stay in good terms with my partner. You know is easier to do the athletes where I'm just like out for a day, totally Back, instead of like a week or more at a time yeah, like a week or more at a time. So I, in some ways, I'd love to, and I've started talking with some brands about doing this for their athlete teams.

Speaker 3: 1:24:14

That's a great idea.

Speaker 4: 1:24:16

I love working with athletes. I think some athletes don't necessarily love the photo process of like it's slowing them down and stuff, and the style I've developed from this like we can be pretty active and stuff, and the style I've developed from this like we can be pretty active and do a lot of things. So maybe runners like I'm a little slow, so like a pro runner, I'm gonna slow down for sure, but some of the other stuff like I can hopefully keep up pretty well. Um, so yeah, that that's been something that, um, it could be be a to go.

Speaker 4: 1:24:46

And then also, just as I get in over time, more and more with these brands can do bigger and cooler trips when there's more trust and some of it I got to start producing bigger, cooler trips myself, just to show them what I can do.

Speaker 3: 1:25:01

Yeah, man, I mean, you've been at this not that long, so you're doing great, you know. Give yourself time, um, cause the the cool things are going to happen at the right time. I, I, I strongly thinking outside of the things that you're proficient at. Like, do you have any interest in getting new kind of skill sets that would then broaden kind of your scope of the types of athletes you work with? Like, you do a lot of rock climbing, do you ice climb as well?

Speaker 4: 1:25:39

I don't. I've taken a course on ice climbing.

Speaker 3: 1:25:42

There's not a ton around here to like practice on some of it. So.

Speaker 4: 1:25:46

I've like thought I could spend like a winter in Colorado and spend more time doing that, but I don't know that's not as much of a priority because of that. Yeah, I get that In some ways I can get better at the sports I'm doing, like doing like I didn't start skiing until I moved out here. Oh, is that right?

Speaker 4: 1:26:10

skiing is still like newer to me in some ways. Uh, I skied pucker up for the first time this year and that was like a line. I never thought I would do so, like getting out there and I didn't do it as clean as I would like, but just getting out there and getting on it yeah, I've, I've never skied that.

Speaker 3: 1:26:25

That's Broken Top yeah, yeah, I've never skied that. Tell people that line, because I think I know like if you're say, you're going up Pine Martin and you turn around and look at Broken Top, is it kind of like the ridge line between the it's in the bowl.

Speaker 4: 1:26:40

It is, yeah, it's proper steep.

Speaker 3: 1:26:49

Like I think it hits 55 degrees at some point, like that is.

Speaker 4: 1:26:51

That is steep, like when you're on it, especially kind of like you said, as this gear to like turn and face you know straight downhill for a second Like yeah, it's it's intimidating. Yeah, we hit it. It was one of the athletes in the profile actually when I skied it. So, Allie. So she spent a lot of time out in that area and guides and we got there in the morning it was like perfect corn. So we're like we got to do it. That's cool man.

Speaker 3: 1:27:17

Yeah, I want to get out in the backcountry more. I've had seasons in my life where it's I feel like it's regular and then like lots of time will go by and I'm I'm due for some more regularity out there. I need a new split board. My bindings are B man, I think sparks I've. I've been running the same spark bindings for well over a decade and I just keep upgrading, like the base plates but like all the everything else is the whole thing at this point, I just need to invest.

Speaker 3: 1:27:51

Shit's expensive, man damn. Yeah, gear's not cheap, dude.

Speaker 4: 1:27:56

No, I mean nothing's cheap anymore, but like it's it's it's, yeah, and it helps to have some of the connections with brands on some things, but I don't really have a ski connection yet, so working on that yeah yeah, lib tech skis man, I might be able to get you a deal on those things they're.

Speaker 3: 1:28:14

I think they make rad skis. Um, I think they call them skinny snowboards though okay I don't know, ben, this has been super fun.

Speaker 3: 1:28:24

I thought, um, you know, our mutual friend josh saran would be a fun kind of ending. I talked with him and he actually came down into the studio because we recorded an episode a couple of winters ago in the back of his ambulance. I was just so curious about this guy and, like, the more I got to learn about him and his story and you know what he's doing and he's what he's still doing and kind of his unique dedication to this lifestyle and just he's a genuinely like joyful dude you know, like he's, he's it's always fun being around him.

Speaker 3: 1:29:02

He definitely does. I mean, he is his brand, like it's. It's authentic. You know it may not be your cup of tea, nor is everything for everyone, but like, if, like, he's a genuine dude. So yeah, this is some thoughts he had.

Speaker 5: 1:29:19

So me and my friend Hannah and a handful of other friends, every season we book a trip out to the Wallawas. We love the backcountry huts out there and you know our first one was three seasons ago now and you know our first one was three seasons ago now. And then we try to book like a different hut every time we go out there, because there's this really cool network of backcountry huts, so like we're trying to check them all out. And the first season, like I said, three years ago, it was like right after Josh reports kind of started. So it was like, you know, we were all just kind of doing our thing and having fun. And then, as we keep doing this every year and returning every year, a few of us are also starting to be more professional in the outdoor space. Each season we're all starting to get, uh, you know, more sponsorships and stuff. And so this year we ended up with an extra spot on the trip and Hannah and I basically were talking about it with a couple of the other people on the trip and we're like, well, let's bring a photographer along. And Hannah had met Ben at a certain point before that, or had gotten in touch with him, I'm not entirely sure where their relationship started there, but she was like, yeah, I know this guy, ben. He does a lot of backcountry ski photography. He does this Oregon Outdoor Athlete Project thing, which I had seen his Instagram before, like I was aware of who he was but I'd never like interacted with him. But I was like, yeah, let's bring him on, yeah, dove, into this back country trip and he was just a really fun addition to the crew, like he's had a, had a great time out there. But he w he came with the intention of shooting photos for us, for our brands and stuff, but then also photos of us to use in his project.

Speaker 5: 1:30:44

You know, I I've worked with quite a few photographers skiing and you get some who are very like run and gun free form loose, which has its own very like cool value and unique value, and you tend to get like some very creative, fun, uh like one-off content. That way, ben is very intentional in like making sure he's picking the right spot, like he sees the photo. Like we'll be hiking up the mountain and he'll see the photo like two miles ahead, like he already has a spot picked out. He's like I think I'm gonna stand mountain and he'll see the photo like two miles ahead, like he already has a spot picked out. He's like I think I'm going to stand there and be shooting down, and he's very good at communicating that with you to be like, hey, like I need you making you know, this kind of a turn 20 feet away from me after you pass this rock Right, and like he's very, very intentional, like he sees the shot way ahead of time and he also is good at trying to like tell a story through what he's doing, like telling the story of the hut trip or like telling my my story through the photos that he took of me out there. Even though we had, like, really just met and hadn't done a lot together, you could kind of tell he had already like probably been looking at my Instagram in the past and maybe even reading up on like some of the stories that I'd been through, but like it was just very like poignant in terms of like it really felt like he knew what he wanted out of each photo and it was really kind of cool to watch that process. Uh, on his end. Yeah, you know there's certain things I envy about his way of doing things in the back country that I really enjoy learning from too.

Speaker 5: 1:32:05

Like I don't consider myself a novice by any means in terms of time spent in the mountains, but we all have different tips and tricks. We picked up along the way different ways of like what gear do you bring versus don't you bring, and stuff. Um, you know, when we were up on Jefferson, uh, I was kind of testing out some new gear to myself. Like I had a little, uh, trekking pole tent that I'd never used before. Ben literally had like a camping pad and a tarp, and he didn't even put anything over himself, he just totally boondocked it, which, like you know, I've done from time to time, but especially when I was younger, haven't done it as a lot as an adult. But you know, it makes me think like, oh well, if I know the weather's going to be good, maybe I just yeah, there's just like little things like that that you observe about people that you're like well, maybe, maybe I should get a more comfortable pair of ski boots for these longer back country trips, or maybe I don't need to bring the tent next time I'm climbing up Jefferson and save just that extra couple pounds in the pack when I'm bringing that ski gear too, and just kind of the the fun of learning from someone else who has a lot of experience, but different experience.

Speaker 5: 1:33:13

My name is Joshua Saran. Uh, better known locally as Josh reports. Uh, daily independent snow reports through the winter, stoked out weather reports through the summer. Um, yeah, a true blue bend local. Uh, born and raised here, spent some time in the Rocky mountains in Montana, but you know now I just kind of chase the snow and have some fun doing it. Uh, you can find me at Josh reports on Instagram, facebook, tik TOK and YouTube or wwwjoshreportscom, if you want to check out more and just get stoked out every day with me.

Speaker 3: 1:33:42

He's got that down, man, he does. He says it a lot. Yeah, I actually uh, I have like maybe 20 minutes of audio that I might put after the show credits of our conversation. Yeah, I was super stoked that he participated in this. Is there anyone like who do you have planned? Is there anyone that you're like? Oh, I would really like to do like a piece with this person.

Speaker 4: 1:34:11

Yeah, there's, there's a few, and I think, in some ways, like the project started with friends, because I was like, let me figure out how I'm doing this. And then like got that down and then, like the confidence slowly expanded. I'm like, okay, let's post in some of these Facebook groups and then get people, and then kind of each person I get out with, I'm like, okay, who would you recommend for?

Speaker 3: 1:34:33

the project.

Speaker 4: 1:34:34

Um, there's a few like one that I talked with and we just didn't end up linking up this year that I'm really stoked to get out with. Uh, hopefully this next year it'd be Stratton Okay, I don't know if you're aware of him. Uh, cascade connections on Instagram, but he is a pro snowboarder but bikes he's off fossil like. He doesn't ride resort at all, he doesn't take car to the mountain. So he'll like just like following him on instagram and seeing like he'll bike out to like three finger jack, do multiple laps, like bike back to town in a day, yeah, and it's just like insane kind of some of the stuff he's doing.

Speaker 4: 1:35:12

It looks like he gets on some like longer missions out in the three sisters and like Jefferson and I kind of like those overnight trips and want to get more into that in the winter and it's it's cool to see people in the area that are really doing that.

Speaker 3: 1:35:28

Is is like a as a fan of this project now and someone who's going to consume your future profiles. I like kind of the everyday person story. I really like there's something about that. It's relatable. I love high-profile athlete stories. And I think in what you're saying there might be kind of a different lane that you could do a similar style but for you know different reasons. But like you know, the person in town or the athlete you know wherever, that kind of you know is also a, you know, an airplane mechanic or something you know, just everyday life.

Speaker 3: 1:36:09

There's something really valuable about that.

Speaker 2: 1:36:11

Don't lose touch with that. Definitely something I plan to keep.

Speaker 4: 1:36:14

I think athlete in the athlete project is a term I use loosely Like there's a lot of these people that are like man I don't know if I'm an athlete or like if I've got something to share and like everyone I've gotten out with like there hasn't been somebody yet I've gotten out with men like uh, like I'm just not going to put one out on them. You know, like everyone's got something cool, like I've found, found stuff for everyone and and I definitely want to keep that side of it as well.

Speaker 3: 1:36:42

Yeah, man, cause you know the the skill level of the athletic endeavor is like only part of the story and arguably not. You know, like it doesn't matter as much as it kind of the substance of the person doing it.

Speaker 4: 1:36:58

Yeah, and I want it to be approachable and I want it to be relatable to people. The one thing that I'm working on that is hard to hard to do, especially in the area it's like want. Right now, my project uh has too many white males in their mid twenties to thirties. So like I'm yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:37:19

Whenever I can find more diversity to add to the project that's.

Speaker 4: 1:37:23

That's something I've been jumping out. Um, yeah, a lot of straight cis white males in there in the, you know, around my age. So when I find other people outside of that demographic I love sharing their story yeah. So a few more of those opportunities with people I've been talking with it'll hopefully pop up and get that in the project because, yeah, like I I said, I want it to be inspiring for everyone, so I've got to show everyone in it, you know.

Speaker 3: 1:37:55

Have you made relationships with other photographers in the community A little bit?

Speaker 4: 1:38:00

I realized after, like a couple days ago, I should have sent you Christian Murillo's info, because he's a guy who does a lot of amazing landscape for us in the area and he had a book, uh, that he did a couple years ago. I met him at like his book event, um, which was cool. He did a project on, kind of the ecosystem of the skagit river in washington wow, he could be a cool person to talk to, but uh, he was like looking for a ski buddy.

Speaker 4: 1:38:29

I was looking for a ski buddy. I was looking for a ski buddy. We started getting out and haven't linked up as much this year. Um, still got out a few times but like for winter, there we were going pretty frequently together. Well, we did McLaughlin this year. We've done a few things, so yeah. Yeah, I primarily ride the back country. I don't normally get a bachelor pass. They're not cheap bro Photos there have just been from like athletes who had kind of free passes.

Speaker 3: 1:38:55

For me that's well that's a good thing, yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:38:58

Yeah, but I also just love the feeling of the back country.

Speaker 3: 1:39:03

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:39:03

Sometimes, yeah, the mountain feels like a little too like let's get as many laps in and rush and kind of consumerist. Totally I love to just be out there and kind of experience it.

Speaker 3: 1:39:13

It requires a different level of engagement. Yeah, yeah, definitely, man. This is fun, ben, is there anything that we didn't talk about that you want to share, or last?

Speaker 4: 1:39:26

thoughts. No, I don't think so. It's keep an eye out for the project. I think it's website's just wwworegonoutdoorathleteprojectcom and it's got the same Instagram handle and yeah, I'm trying to put stuff out all the time and would love to have more people checking it out yeah, it'll keep it going.

Speaker 3: 1:39:49

Man, it's really high quality photos and cool stories. Man, you're, it's really, it's really high quality photos and cool stories and cool people, and it's fun that most, I think, if not everybody, is pretty local. Yeah, I mean, it seemed like the large majority of central Oregon.

Speaker 4: 1:40:04

some have been kind of yeah, like I did one on the road with somebody who is kind of more south southwest Oregon and might start branching out a little bit more in the state, but it's it's easy to like kind of find one connection and then three or four from the same same person.

Speaker 3: 1:40:22

Awesome. Well, thanks bro this has been super fun. Yeah, yeah, thank you all right. Thank you All right.

Speaker 3: 1:40:51

Hey, thanks for listening to Ben Magazine's the Circling Podcast. Make sure to visit benmagazinecom and learn about all the outdoor adventures in our area, as well as upcoming featured community events, local artist profiles, our dining guide and more. Remember, enter promo code podcast at checkout for your $5 annual subscription. Our theme song was written by Carl Perkins and performed by Aaron Kohlbaker and Aaron Zerflu of the Aarons. We love mail, so please send us comments, questions or art to thecirclingpodcast at bennmagazinecom. Support the Circling Podcast by becoming a member on Patreon at patreoncom. Forward slash the Circling Podcast and learn how your financial contribution will help support local nonprofits while also supporting local podcasting. Follow us on Instagram at the Circling Podcast to learn more about past, current and upcoming episodes at the Circling Podcast. To learn more about past, current and upcoming episodes, please subscribe to the Circling Podcast and all major podcast platforms and leave us a review. It really does help.

Speaker 3: 1:42:02

I'd like to say a special thank you to all of those who participated in the making of this episode, as it wouldn't be the same without your contribution and, as always, I appreciate your trust. Learn more about Ben and the Oregon Outdoor Athlete Program at BenKitchenPhotographycom and follow Ben on social media at Oregon Outdoor Athlete Project. As he continues to profile outdoor adventure athletes in our community, don't forget to stay tuned after the show. Credits for ben's contribution to the circling podcast community art project exploring subliminal story art embedded with meaning. And here are some final thoughts from josh haran of josh reports. Lastly, if you know someone who you think would enjoy today's episode, please share it with them today. Hey, thanks. Thanks for your time, st Jorigan, get outside, we'll see you out there. And remember, the health of our community relies on us.

Speaker 4: 1:42:59

To me, community is the people that have your back when times are good and when shit hits the fan. I think sometimes we don't celebrate our successes enough and I think it's important to have the friends that you can come to when you're excited about things and you have things and they'll cheer you on. And I think it's equally important to have those people that are with you in times are bad. As a outdoor athlete like often in the mountains, in a blizzard, like struggling it's like nice to have those people that you can rely on, you can bring up when you're having a good day and they're having a bad one, and vice versa.

Speaker 3: 1:43:38

What are your goals this winter, man? What do you got going? I want to ski, that goes without saying. What do you think about Bachelor being for sale?

Speaker 5: 1:43:46

Oh my gosh, I am intrigued beyond belief to see where that goes. I'm very excited for the people that we have in place as management at bachelor right now for what we're about to be going through. Like, obviously they haven't listed a sale price yet or anything. It could go up for sale next week and be bought a week after. Or it could go up for sale next week and still be for sale a year from now. Like we really don't know what that's going to look like.

Speaker 5: 1:44:10

But I think Merriman really likes being here. He loves Bend and you know I sat down and did a really cool interview with him near the end of last season and he had a lot of really good things to say about the area and he seemed really passionate about it. So that's kind of what I was asking him last night and he wants to stick around. He would love to keep his job at bachelor, regardless of who buys it. So, like you know, I know we've got someone in charge at least who has only the best intentions for keeping bachelor on a positive track, regardless of who owns it going forward and regardless of what powder court might think while they're trying to sell it. So, at the very least I'm happy about that.

Speaker 5: 1:44:48

I really there. There's some interests that I'd be kind of excited if bought it. There's also some that I'd be pretty sad if bought it. So, like you know, there's a particular resort out of Colorado that has a big name for themselves now that I would really not like to see on our ski resort. How come? You know, I've just never quite liked Vail.

Speaker 3: 1:45:08

What about them?

Speaker 5: 1:45:14

what about them? It just that they've got a very obviously any of these big ski resort conglomerates do, but uh, they've got a much more corporate mindset in my mind and like I've gone to a few resorts and you know people joke about bachelor feeling like disneyland with the fast tracks and stuff, but you compare it to a veil resort and they, they're just so much more corporate. They're really uh, they do a lot to like try to cut their costs. They do a lot of those like work exchange programs from, like bringing in, you know, kids from foreign countries that work for a little bit cheaper and stuff, which you know by all means I think it's a really cool way for those kids to come and explore and see our areas. But it doesn't necessarily always help our economy quite as much. And you know Vail is very well known for having the yellow coats telling people to slow down on runs and stuff, and I personally don't like being told how fast to ski. Um, so like there's just little aspects of the way veil runs, things that don't quite jive with my mentality of what skiing should be. But you know, uh, I personally think there's a good chance altera might try to pick it up. We're already on icon pass and altera kind of runs that and I think that's a good chance. Altera might try to pick it up. We're already on Icon Pass and Altera kind of runs that and I think that's a little bit more of a smooth transition between the two, like I'd be interested to see how that goes.

Speaker 5: 1:46:18

Of course, the dream for all of us is some local foreign investor or some local private investor not foreign investor who's passionate about it might try to pick it back up, but I also don't think there's high odds of that happening. But to pick it back up, but I also don't think there's high odds of that happening. But you never know what's happening behind closed doors. Right now. I'm sure there's a lot of people talking about a lot of things, so I'm intrigued to see where it goes. I'm intrigued to see how it if. I think the season's going to start pretty normal, but we'll see. You know once a purchaser gets announced how it starts to change from there.

Speaker 3: 1:46:46

So yeah yeah yeah, it'll be fun to watch. I, I uh, I'm definitely, uh, I'm curious myself. Yeah, just to observe and watch and see how it shakes out. It's. It's also got to be an incredibly you know. I mean there's a lot of unknown variables in a purchase of a ski resort. There's a ton you know you.

Speaker 3: 1:47:08

You have weather trends. You have the economy. You have, you know, so many unpredictable components that are required for success as a business. You know Um which a lot of. I learned that a ton this winter cause I did this like little trifecta part with some of the leadership in different departments up there and most of the people had been up there for years and and just realizing, for the like, how much goes into what happens up there.

Speaker 3: 1:47:37

It's, it's a city, literally it's its own city on a hill. That requires all the things, um, all the input that is electric.

Speaker 5: 1:47:48

All the you know. Make it to the gr's running. Make sure the snow cats are operating every night. Like, yeah, it's interesting, like the perspective that I've gotten over the years of doing Josh reports, where I don't work for the resort but like I work so closely with the resort and also so closely with the public who think I know a lot more about the resort than I do. So then, because people ask me those questions, I do try to find it out when I have the chances to talk to people at the resort.

Speaker 5: 1:48:16

So like you know just the insights that I've gained over the years. It makes me interested to see who's going to be interested in purchasing Bachelor because you know, largely a lot of ski resorts make money off of not skiing. They make money off the real estate, they make money off the surrounding area. You look at most massive developed resorts they have lodging down at the bottom. So the second, the resort closes for the day. They're still making money on rooms overnight. They're making money on their ski shops, their bars, their services, the condos, everything Bachelor doesn't have that. They're just a ski resort and I love that about it. But it does make me interested to see like what big companies are going to want to be purchasing in on that and like where the reality sits for a lot of those like investments, cause a lot of them are just buying it to make money. So you know, most of them are buying it to make money.

Speaker 3: 1:49:09

You know that it would be the, in my opinion, the exception for someone with the altruism to come in and invest that amount of money and take that amount of risk just for the love of skiing.

Speaker 5: 1:49:21

It's one thing when someone buys a small resort like Willamette Pass or something, but if you're buying something like Bachelor, there's a lot going into that.

Speaker 3: 1:49:32

Plus, and I really don't know what I'm talking about other than just kind of peripheral insight over the years. But I think Bachelor is unique too in terms of its relationship with the Forest Service and the land that it can develop.

Speaker 5: 1:49:43

Well, that's part of why it stays so pristine and so undeveloped is because it's just leased. You know like I never want that to change Right.

Speaker 1: 1:49:51

I don't want a hotel at the nice village, you know.

Speaker 3: 1:49:54

Me neither man.

Speaker 5: 1:49:55

Well, you know, there's a lot of things that I think a new purchaser could do and could bring in. I also think there's always going to be an uphill battle in our local community, cause I think, no matter what happens at bachelor, there's a lot of people in Bend who like to complain and then when something happens that like changes something they were complaining about, they'll complain about the change too. Yep, uh.

Speaker 3: 1:50:16

So anyone who what is that, dude? I don't know. You know, it's kind of the antithesis of what you preach.

Speaker 5: 1:50:23

I've always had this well that it's largely why I started josh reports. Is there? Was that complaining going?

Speaker 5: 1:50:28

I remember you telling me if your biggest complaints about your local ski Hill where you get to ride a flying couch up a mountain like you got it pretty good, right, but it'll be interesting. You know, like I know a lot of these other resorts, uh, you know, if you go and visit, uh, california or Washington or Utah, um, a lot of resorts have permitted parking and have, even if it's not paid parking, there's some sort of permit system in place, at least on the super busy weekends, and they have like this kind of necessity for it and Bachelor isn't as busy yet it's not like trying to get up little Cottonwood Canyon on a Saturday, but it's getting busier and a lot of these bigger resorts that run resorts like that do parking systems, and I know people in Bend hate the idea of a parking system up at bachelor, which I get.

Speaker 5: 1:51:19

I don't like the idea of having that, but I also can understand where these bigger people that don't know bachelor as well might come in and just want to put that in place. So, like, I think there's a chance for a lot of really cool and good change and reinvestment in the mountain for, like potential upgrades to lifts and stuff. But I think it's going to come with a lot of things like that that a lot of people locally might not want to. Yeah, honestly, one of my plans for this year, like given the way things were last year you know, I've got my own goals for like skiing and content that I want to make and like partnerships to build, and I've got actually a lot of plans for like next summer going forward. But one thing that I want to focus on this year for myself is trying to be a little more economical with my skiing, just in terms of like living in an ambulance, you know, because I've got my dog in there. Because I've got my dog in there. I've shied away from carpooling up to the mountain as much because I don't want to leave my dog in my rig in town all the time.

Speaker 5: 1:52:24

But last year there were so many of these days that the roads weren't getting plowed at night and the snow parks, specifically, weren't getting plowed. And there were days I would get off work because my usual MO was get off work in the middle of the night, drive to the mountain when no one else is on the road, sleep in a snow park and then finish the drive in the morning. There were some days I'd be doing that and like the snow parks wouldn't be cleared, I'd like get all the way up there and have to like figure out a backup plan or like keep going to the next snow park or the next one or the next one until I finally found a spot that I could pull into without getting my truck stuck. I dug my truck out more this last season than I did the entire two seasons before that combined. So like I am thinking, if the storms continue in that way, just things were a little wetter and icier this last season, I felt like, and without parks guaranteed being cleared, like I'm a lot more likely to try to take the bus more, which partially, you know, from an economic standpoint I'm not spending the money on gas partially from an environmental standpoint.

Speaker 5: 1:53:17

I just want to try to reduce my own carbon footprint a little bit and try to set a good example for me and like hey, like we can carpool, we don't have to fill the parking lots every day. We can take the bus system up because it's not free and it's not the best, but it's a decent bus system. It works out okay. And like I know my dog, you know she could sit in my truck for eight hours while I'm at work and be comfortable, cause she's got her heater, she's got her food, she can hang out at the park and ride for like four hours while I go skiing, you know, um, and just trying to be a little bit more intentional about the way I'm getting to and from the mountain every day. So like when you say the idea of like a light rail system or something I'm all in on something like that.

Speaker 3: 1:53:55

I just don't know if it's a different mentality Americans have. They like their individual space and their the freedom associated with having their own vehicle.

Speaker 5: 1:54:06

I love having my truck in the skyline.

Speaker 3: 1:54:07

Yeah, we all do man Like having the tailgate, it's just you look at those systems and they're so successful in other parts of the world. You know.

Speaker 5: 1:54:14

Yeah, we're very car-centric around here.

Speaker 3: 1:54:16

Totally it's a little wild, yeah, to say the least. The problem is, though, that's all well and good when everybody can afford a car, bro, I need a new truck. Ford a car, right, bro, I need a new truck. I'm looking at new trucks right now. Oh my God, it's insane. I saw a Ford F-150 Raptor for $125,000. A six-figure, half-ton pickup truck.

Speaker 5: 1:54:41

My other truck. So I live in my ambulance full-time, but out on my parents' property near Tumalo I have my old truck parked out there from before I had my rig.

Speaker 5: 1:54:49

I've got a 2005 Toyota Tundra that is in significantly worse shape than it was when I bought it. One of the fenders is kind of rusting out because I replaced it and just didn't paint it right, I guess I'm not entirely sure. Engine works great, but there's definitely some oil leaks. It's a 20-year-old truck. I can sell it now for more than I bought it for 10 years ago, like that's ridiculous it's unprecedented when it comes to uh used auto value.

Speaker 3: 1:55:18

I mean, it's one thing if we're talking like a 74 v-dub van right right or an old bronco like for an early 2000s tundra with a rusted out fender and an oil leak.

Speaker 5: 1:55:30

To sell that more than I could sell for probably double what I bought it for.

Speaker 3: 1:55:33

It's incredible man.

Speaker 5: 1:55:34

Well, and then you also have just the factor of we are such a car centric society, so our cities were built thinking of being car centric. So, like it's hard as a community, like if you're yourself like, oh man, I just don't want to drive as much, I'm going to walk more, like ride my bike more. A lot of our cities and towns aren't set up for that really Like, especially when you get. You know, bend has grown a lot in the last 20, 30 years and it's changed a lot. And yeah, if you live somewhere near or in town, it's really easy to like.

Speaker 5: 1:56:06

If you live in between downtown and the old mill, you can walk everywhere you ever have to go. But if you live out on the outskirts, if you live on the east side and you want to go catch a concert at the Les Schwab amphitheater, like it's suddenly becomes a lot less practical. It's not like we have the public transit of a bigger city. It's not like we have, you know, all the means and abilities to like get around in that way necessarily. So then, uber bro, uber right, more cars, it's true, maybe they're electric.

Speaker 3: 1:56:33

Yeah, I don't know if that really matters, but I don't know yeah.

Speaker 5: 1:56:35

I mean I, I I do think like Uber and the ability to do those ride share programs is definitely. It helped a lot for sure, yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:56:45

Who, what brands are you working with now?

Speaker 5: 1:56:48

Uh, coming into this season right now I'm with a locally powder house and Avid cider company are the two like big local companies I work with, and, of course, mount bachelor. I work with them. So shout out for the free seasons pass. You know that saves me a lot of money. But, uh, so those are the three local ones. Uh, I work with true gear up out of Portland, so still pretty local. They do my outerwear for me and they're just phenomenal. I love working with those guys. Um, I work with Giro, uh, for my helmets and goggles. They always hook me up with a new helmet every season and I definitely put it to good use, and some goggles and stuff. And then, uh, atomic. I've been working, um, working with Atomic a lot. They, uh, they hooked it up last season, uh, for the first time and I I been loving having that connection and that sponsorship. And then Grass Sticks out of Colorado. One of my coworkers at J-Dub actually was one of the co-founders of the company, but they make really cool bamboo ski poles.

Speaker 3: 1:57:41

Yeah, I've seen those.

Speaker 5: 1:57:42

Yeah, I've been rocking those for a couple seasons now, that's kind of the list at the moment, like there's a few other you know brands that I'll like partner with here and there, like I've worked with um. Zentopia is a local company that makes like really cool CBD tea drinks and stuff. I've done some stuff with them Begoat energy drinks Uh, there's been a handful of other ones but, and there's a handful that I've kind of got in mind that I'm trying to work with, but at the moment that's kind of like the main list of who I'm partnered with coming into the season.

Speaker 5: 1:58:09

That's cool man.

Speaker 3: 1:58:11

What's going on? I mean you have been on this kind of path and journey to kind of create this niche that you fill in this world as kind of a professional skier of some sort, but focused more on kind of the everyday, relatable, kind of enjoy every day. I mean that's your brand.

Speaker 5: 1:58:32

Exactly, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 3: 1:58:33

Um. Is that gaining traction? Like are you? Are you finding success in what you're trying to do with your brand?

Speaker 5: 1:58:40

I'm finding more and more um partially success and I'd say partially just like pure recognition from it. Um, I'm looking at what the next step is like enjoy every day, and Josh report specifically has done like really well for where it's at. Um. I'm looking at what the next step is like enjoy every day, and Josh report specifically has done like really well for where it's at. Um. I think there's a certain growth limit to, uh, you know a fun loving dude who yells about whether on a chairlift like it locally it's done really well. There's a certain, I think, cap to like how much more growth there is to just doing that. But uh, I've been like at a point I think cap to like how much more growth there is to just doing that. But uh, I've been like at a point where I'm starting to like look at what the next step is, um, between like doing some longer format videos, gear reviews, unboxing type stuff, more interview style, podcast kind of things, um, and using the momentum that I have off Josh reports and especially going into this next winter season to really grow it as like the Josh report's not going to stop. I'm going to keep yelling about whether that's not going to go away, but, like you know what, what do I do beyond that? Like, how do I keep spreading the stoke and how do I bring more people in and how do I like take the local recognition as like basically, basically a public speaking figure in this industry, and how do I take that local recognition and grow it to a more like regional, if not national, scale of like people know they can rely on me to bring the stoke and be positive. Maybe that comes in the form of announcing someday, like working at events or something. Or maybe it comes in the form of those longer format videos, uh being on podcasts and stuff and just kind of like doing the tours, like that too, um, and of course, you know, obviously getting out there and creating content, making more shred edits and stuff being in a little bit more like video content through this next season and I don't know.

Speaker 3: 2:00:19

That's an interesting role. I don't know. You know it is like a person of influence, which is what kind of you are.

Speaker 5: 2:00:26

Right, I mean, the term influencer obviously is like the thought there, but it's, it's uh right now.

Speaker 5: 2:00:32

I'm kind of in that world of like trying to figure out what I'm doing with that influence and like where, where I want those next steps to be, and like I've got a handful of ideas jiggling around in the brain and like just trying to like see which one sticks and which one settles and which one feels the best. You know, just kind of keeping all the feelers out there and it's cool, trying to do them all at once, and then you know, if that one didn't really inspire anything in me, maybe I won't do that again, or maybe I will, but in a slightly different way. But yeah, nice, it's fun. It's cool, josh, it's a fun journey of discovery right now.

Speaker 5: 2:01:03

So, my name's Joshua Saran, better known locally as Josh Reports. Daily independent snow reports through the winter, stoked out weather reports through the summer. Um, yeah, a true blue bend local, uh, born and raised here, spent some time in the Rocky mountains in Montana, but you know now I just kind of chase the snow and have some fun doing it. Uh, you can find me at Josh reports on Instagram, facebook, tik TOK and YouTube or wwwjoshreportscom, if you want to check out more and just get stoked out every day with me.

Speaker 3: 2:01:31

All right, man Dude, you got that down.

Speaker 5: 2:01:37

Little bit of practice how many times have you said that A lot. You know I finish out my longer format videos with it, but I also do I'm still doing the weather forecast for the P104.1 every weekend.

Speaker 3: 2:01:50

Oh, I didn't know you were doing that. Yeah, when did you start doing that?

Speaker 5: 2:01:53

it's been a couple years now. Were you doing it when we first met? I don't think so.

Speaker 5: 2:01:56

I think it started a little bit after that, but my buddy, sergio, is one of the djs for the peak. That's insane, so he brought me on. So it's always it's a very josh report style weather forecast every friday morning and afternoon. But you know I was like this is Josh coming at you with your weekend weather forecast here on the Peak 104.1. And then I go through the whole thing and it's like and if you want to hear more, don't forget to check me out at Josh Sports on Instagram, facebook, tiktok and YouTube. And, most importantly, my friends, do not forget to enjoy every day, y'all peace.