Speaker 1: 0:34

Well, even if not a single soundbite from our discussion makes it on to the recording. Rob crushed it. Thanks.

Speaker 2: 0:43

Adam, that was fun guys.

Speaker 4: 0:54

That was a lad. Times were hard and things were bad. There's a silver lining behind every crowd. Just four people, that's all we were Trying to make a living out of Blackland dirt. We'd be together in a family circle singing loud.

Speaker 5: 1:12

On episode 60 of Bend Magazine's the Circling Podcast, I'm joined by three of the founding members of Bend Outdoor Works, commonly referred to as BOW. Bend Outdoor Works is an outdoor startup accelerator program made up of a vibrant community of entrepreneurs whose mission is to help outdoor brands achieve their wildest dreams. Founded in 2014 by several outdoor industry experts, bao specializes in providing high-level mentorship from experienced outdoor industry founders, as well as e-commerce coaching, branding, accounting and legal services. The idea for Bao came to founder Gary Braceland in 2013 in an effort to offer outdoor industry brands the same opportunities for growth and development that other startup accelerator programs were offering different sectors of industry, established a strong reputation and has graduated 26 companies, with 22 still in business, and is currently taking applications for the 2025 cohort. Join me as I sit down with founding members Gary Braceland, will Blout and Justin Ray as they share some of their individual experiences before their involvement with BOW, the process of the B the bow cohort program and the why behind their passion for helping outdoor businesses grow, succeed and thrive. Yo, justin, will gary. Hey, thanks for taking the time today. Fellas, it's always a pleasure.

Speaker 5: 2:50

The circling podcast can be found on patreon. Visit our page and learn how a percentage of your financial support will support local nonprofits and the continued growth of local community podcasting. Become a member and learn about this unique opportunity at patreoncom forward. Slash the circling podcast on Instagram at the circling podcast to learn more about past, current and upcoming episodes. Please subscribe to the circling podcast on all major podcast platforms and leave us a review. It really does help. I'd like to say a special thank you to all of those who participated in the making of this episode, as it wouldn't be the same without your contribution, and I appreciate your trust. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 3:35

Why not Come?

Speaker 6: 3:37

on in.

Speaker 5: 3:37

I'd your trust.

Speaker 3: 3:37

Yeah, yeah why not Come on in. I'd love to.

Speaker 1: 3:40

I think there's so many applications for that within the outdoor industry.

Speaker 5: 3:44

Oh, there's a ton. Yeah, don't get too far away from this thing.

Speaker 3: 3:48

Telling the story, right? Yeah, everybody's got to tell the story, yeah.

Speaker 1: 4:07

Well, I mean, adam, just to illustrate what we're doing right now is pretty much what the BOW program is about, Right, I mean we're that you trust, respect and work through shit. I mean at the end of the day and what comes out. The other side sometimes is pretty special.

Speaker 5: 4:22

Yeah, Seems like your success rate's pretty good. I was reading online. It's like 85% of brands that you've worked with are still in business. Is that right?

Speaker 3: 4:31

Yeah, I think it's like Our metrics are pretty good compared to a lot of accelerators and, yeah, we're pretty proud of those metrics.

Speaker 2: 4:40

Yeah, well, I think that's also something that's interesting is, like, what is defined as success, right, so like for us. You know, if we had a company that was like we want to create a lifestyle business, great for us, that's just as successful.

Speaker 2: 4:56

As you know, an exit by a company who's selling 10 years down the road you know we didn't do this as a, you know, like an incubator for a private portfolio or private equity portfolio. So it's, it's kind of cool from that perspective where you see these different iterations and different um I don't know foot paths that these companies follow. It's, it's sweet yeah.

Speaker 3: 5:15

Yeah, I think success means different things to everybody and you know we always say in the outdoor industry you know it's not a three and out like in the tech world. You know it's a 10-year overnight success story.

Speaker 2: 5:31

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 5:32

And that might be a lifestyle business. It might be an exit.

Speaker 1: 5:37

It might be someone realizing they don't want to be doing what they're doing anymore too.

Speaker 5: 5:40

Exactly yeah put their energy elsewhere well in an effort before, because we we could clearly go down the road a ways. But I thought it would be fun to kind of start our conversation and again, this is the idea, this is to kind of hear the story behind the founding of Bend Outdoor Works, and part of that is just like you said, will a group of people with life and business experience coming together, kind of spitballing ideas, sharing experience in an effort to see what can come out the other end and the very first person that you worked with was Mr Rob Little, who I had the privilege of having in here. I feel like I need to put the Mr in front of his name for some reason Don't you meet him huh, yeah, like he's just you know like he's.

Speaker 1: 6:25

He's kind of like a knight, isn't he? I mean, I think he would be knighted if he was in the UK, sir.

Speaker 2: 6:32

Rob Little. He's in front of his name, sir Rob Little. Yeah, sir Rob Little, you know, one thing.

Speaker 3: 6:38

Adam, before we get on that, you asked the question about B2B and B2C.

Speaker 3: 6:42

And you know it just sparked an idea. So while it's fresh I wanted to share it that. You know we've all been around, you know, the block for a while but in the old days you only had B2B right In the wholesale brand selling to your business. You started with the little specialty guys, you moved up to the medium chains and then, you know, moved your way up the food chain and you know D2C has totally changed that and you know so we see a lot of and that's direct to consumer.

Speaker 5: 7:13

For people who don't know what that means D2C.

Speaker 3: 7:16

And so I think a lot of brands, companies, that's their first avenue to get out there, before they can open that first brick and mortar retailer or whatever. And so, yeah, now the model has more become build your business on D2C, get a following, show, prove your model. And but you know, I still think traditional distribution has its place. You know, being in the right retail store is advertising you get paid for.

Speaker 5: 7:47

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 7:49

And you know, I think a lot of early stage entrepreneurs think that D2C is all of it and that's what they need to build on. But I think when you look at most mature companies in this industry, at some point they're going to go wholesale and sell to retailers and they'll take you more serious when you have a big D2C following so, you know, I think it's steps, but we watched it kind of go from only brick and mortar to e-commerce being the focus to.

Speaker 3: 8:18

as these companies mature, they realize that, you know, a healthy company has multiple channels, right.

Speaker 1: 8:25

And there's never been a time where it's easier to start a business than it is today. But there's also never been a time it's harder to cut through the noise. Yeah, because there's just so many people doing it. Yeah.

Speaker 5: 8:36

You brought up a memory. Man. Moro snowboards right. I think it was the year the spoon nose came out, man in fact, I have a pretty vivid memory of being about 13 years old in the back of that, back of that snowboard shop and having a, a demo from you and seeing the spoon nose for the first time that was, uh, cavanaugh's casuals or shred shed, wasn't it?

Speaker 3: 8:57

yeah, that was Cavanaugh's Casuals or Shred Shed, wasn't?

Speaker 5: 8:58

it. Yeah, it was Cavanaugh's Casuals that would have been about 94 if it was the spoon nose years.

Speaker 3: 9:06

Actually, I think there's still a signed poster of you in one of my kids' bedrooms that they don't even occupy anymore. I haven't taken down, so you're still Funny man.

Speaker 5: 9:17

Yeah, yeah. Well, all right, let's hear from Rob.

Speaker 6: 9:24

As a founder. It's really I don't know. Hard, quiet, lonely, I guess, is the word I'm looking for. When you're starting, not many people can understand what you're going through and the time it would take to convey the complexity of issues you're trying to solve from a customer service problem to pricing, to my 10-year strategy, to how do I finance the business, to what's a business registration, how do I get one. There's not many people that understand what that's like. In many regards, having a group of people that have been through it and are several steps ahead of you in the process becomes like a counseling session.

Speaker 6: 10:01

My background is all over the place. I started off my college career in a military academy. I wanted to be a fighter pilot. I went to the Air Force Academy for my freshman year, quickly learned that I didn't want to give up every other opportunity for the next 20 years just to fly planes, and my interest in that didn't diminish. But my excitement about other things sort of increased to the point where I ended up leaving and going to an engineering school in Southern California. Didn't ever really want to be an engineer, though, just enjoyed the way that it taught me to think and solve problems. Took an unusual path out of that school and went into the Peace Corps, spent two years living in Central America on an indigenous reservation helping with infrastructure projects so design and construction of bridges and schools and chicken coops and roads and latrines and water systems. Came out of that and flipped the script and went in the other direction.

Speaker 6: 10:56

I worked for aerospace manufacturer Lockheed Martin. I spent five years with them on deep space vehicles, gps satellites, mars rovers, the Hubble Space Telescope, went into stealth fighter jet production on the F-35. And I tried to get out a couple of times. They offered to pay for my graduate school. I said pick any school you want, we'll pay for it, no limitations, and was fortunate enough to get into a top MBA program, did an entrepreneurship track and was just lit up by it. I was so excited about what I learned and saw. As much as I love the big projects I could experience in the aerospace industry, I knew that it wasn't my long-term calling. I finished my commitment to Lockheed and through all of that had met and married a fellow Oregonian.

Speaker 6: 11:45

I grew up here in the state in southern Oregon and so did my wife Betsy. We decided that we wanted to take a risk on moving back to Oregon and just figuring it out, to take a risk on moving back to Oregon and just figuring it out, it was maybe two months into living in Dubend and pursuing both applying for jobs and starting Cairn, or at least exploring the idea of Cairn going to trade shows, talking to people, when it was clear that my passion was in trying to start the business, and so I gave up on trying to be employed by somebody and went all in on Cairn, on trying to be employed by somebody, and went all in on Karen. One of those early conversations was actually with Gary's wife. Jarell Got to know what she did from a branding standpoint and got introduced to Gary and started to learn they hadn't started about yet. They were exploring the idea of what to do. They were talking to businesses and I was months into the concept of whether or not to start. They were trying to figure out do we do it or not? When do we do it, when do we not?

Speaker 6: 12:47

And I was fully aware of what I didn't know in starting a business and in the industry and in the town. Didn't know how to file registration to create a business, didn't know anyone in Bend. My wife and I moved here because we loved Oregon. We wanted to be closer to family and friends. The entrepreneurial network, largely driven by BBC and a lot of the pub talks, was encouraging to me. And then I didn't know the industry. I didn't work in the outdoor industry, I was a consumer of it, so I understood what it was like to browse the aisles of REI and go camping for a weekend, but I didn't know the back end of it.

Speaker 6: 13:22

The introduction to Gary led to conversations with several of them and I saw a solution to each of those issues in their experience and background. And I don't remember exactly how the conversations unfolded, but it was along the lines of like just start it and we'll figure it out together. I will bring you my questions and problems and you help me solve them, and don't worry about a curriculum. It was very much a let's all figure this out as we go together. There's an informative aspect to bow in how it originated and where it sits today. There's, in my opinion, an undercurrent of just we're here for you. We understand how hard it is. How can we support you? Let us commiserate and celebrate together in the pains and the successes of starting a business.

Speaker 6: 14:18

There's a broad spectrum of entrepreneurs. I think they're the most inconsistent group of humans out there. They come from all different backgrounds and all different personality styles. It's not universal that entrepreneurs are willing to be vulnerable and want to hear other people's advice and are willing to take a hard look at that advice. Any business that wants to consider Bao, I think, should really take a hard look in the mirror and say how willing am I to be considerate of other perspectives and steps I take? Because that's where the value is. You're not going to get anything out of it if you come into it and just hear people's opinions and then don't consider them. The other element is anything is open, like we're not committed to anything here and we're willing to think about how big we could get, how hard it would be to shut down. You know, I think that it's easy to step into a situation like that and say I only want help with topic X, and the deeper we go on, topic X reveals that actually we need to look at every other aspect of your business. We may have a really interesting and difficult conversation around. Did you even choose the right brand out of the gates, or is your product the right fit for the market, or have you completely missed a pricing segment that we need to go back and reconsider, and the openness to understanding that well, you may have a specific topic list on day one. The conversation could go in any direction. I think is not a given and something that I encourage the brands to really think hard about before they step into a program.

Speaker 6: 15:56

There's also something about the category that, for me, is really appealing. It's hard not to enjoy looking at physical products that have an application. That is fun in your life. We're not talking about necessities. We're not talking about things that are niche. We're talking about recreating and how to enjoy yourself more in this world. It's a natural combination, for I think all of us that participate in some capacity at BAU we feel thankful that we're in this confluence of business, entrepreneurship and a category that's sexy, right. It's exciting, it's fun. You may have come across this in some of your research, but I've come full circle and now I'm a mentor in the mentoring group. It's fun. You may have come across this in some of your research, but I've come full circle and now I'm a mentor in the mentoring group.

Speaker 6: 16:45

It was a privilege to be asked to join them all. Boy, is it fun to sit back in the seats and hear their stories and try and commiserate with them and help them understand that what they're going through is temporary and there are solutions. Yes, it's overwhelming, but it gets easier. It might get harder before it gets easier, but it gets easier. And that's the side of Bao that I didn't anticipate going into it. I just expected these people are going to help me answer the questions I don't know how to answer and out of it I actually got friends and mentors that could just sympathize with me, got friends and mentors that could just sympathize with me.

Speaker 6: 17:19

Something that I've seen firsthand over the 10 years that I've participated and bow in some capacity or just been mentored by them or friends with them, is, it's incredibly selfless, like there's not an economic play here for what they're doing. They're doing it to stay connected and to give back and to feel like they can rewind the clock on their own career and get the excitement out of when they first stepped into whatever they're doing and to a large degree, that's where I'm at now. You know I'm 10 years removed from starting Cairn. I probably have another run or two in me. I'm enjoying some time to not do any of that at the moment, but it's invigorating to be able to I think, the analogy somebody in Bao gave was to jump in the river and raft one rapid with them and then jump out and not have to run the entire river.

Speaker 6: 18:38

There's a really humble, selfless backing from all of them behind that. I think most of the time when people think about incubators and accelerators and investors, it's really easy to think finances lead it all and it's just about like how to draw some sort of a return on their investment, and I would say that there are many things that are far more important to this group before you get to anything that approaches finances or outcome.

Speaker 3: 19:09

Wow, did me goosebumps. That was a wrap.

Speaker 1: 19:12

yeah, yeah, we're done, we're done here. If we all could be like rob little, wow, sir, rob little.

Speaker 5: 19:19

So yeah, that was long but I felt like, uh, that whole thing has value in it, man. Oh sad, you know, start to finish from his perspective it also to me. One thought that came to mind for me was you know, clearly that guy you know is firing on all cylinders between the ears and yet, like he, the humility that he recognized what he didn't know and then in his community started meeting people to kind of lean into that, had that life experience. I mean that that that's exceptional. But I I thought it would be fun for to kind of briefly hear from you guys your first kind of memories of first interacting with rob and that first kind of core mentor, mentee, kind of what you guys were building is to really kind of get another kind of perspective on that.

Speaker 1: 20:10

Wow.

Speaker 3: 20:10

Rob's a special person. I mean, you know it, you see it the minute you meet him. You know.

Speaker 1: 20:24

I think he beautifully articulated probably why all of us do what we do. You know, I just reflect back on my own journey at Ruffwear and I started when, I think, there were four or five people there and we were a very small brand, working from paycheck to paycheck, trying to make ends meet, and I was in my late twenties I think it was 29 at the time and, you know, gone through and graduated with a business degree and a minor in marketing, but really hadn't had any real life experience from a work perspective. And so when I started there as the general manager, I was just a sponge for any type of knowledge and mentorship and wisdom I could get to apply to Ruffwear. I joined Opportunity Knox back then and I literally read every single business book that crossed my desk and at one point I had a woman, susan Striebel kind of look at me, you know, because I would try on one strategy after the other blue ocean strategy or hedgehog strategy and she was like, wow, we are just getting exhausted with just changing focus. He was like wow, we are just getting exhausted with just changing focus.

Speaker 1: 21:42

And I think that that feeling of desperation for mentorship and a group of people where you could come together and express what was going on and just to be able to voice that to someone in here and have that reflected back to you through another someone in here and have that reflected back to you through another. Because when you're at the top of the organization or leading an organization right, you're in this power role and it's hard to do that at that level, and so to step out of that and have some support that's seen outside the context of you're my boss and my career is in your hands was really what I was looking for. And so when Gary I know he probably had a bone to pick is why he did bow, but it was an opportunity to contribute and give back and to hear it so beautifully, you know, shared in Rob's words, is really rewarding. I mean, that's why I do what I do around bow.

Speaker 5: 22:26

I know it is, bro, and that's why I was excited to share that. You know it's fun giving people stuff, and when you hear something that you know is going to like, you know that's what I love doing. These audio Like this is what story boosts around. It's the same idea. Like people don't often get to hear from the people that they've worked with or have had an influence on enough, you know, so it's fun.

Speaker 1: 22:46

So was excited. Thank you, yeah, that was fun, yeah, thanks yeah, gary, you did.

Speaker 5: 22:52

You start bow. I mean, was it your initial idea?

Speaker 3: 22:55

I guess it was my crazy idea yeah yeah I took around to. You know a lot of these guys and, um, I'm known for having a lot of crazy ideas and that's why you're good at what you do.

Speaker 5: 23:07

What, what, what did you notice that made you feel like you needed to create this?

Speaker 1: 23:13

We were in sister's organ, gary.

Speaker 3: 23:14

Yeah, yeah, you know like I was going to say you know, um, I was the outdoor guy in town, I'd been around for a long time and so I got a lot of people that were referred to me. They'd come up to me and say, hey, look at my product. What do you think? Can you sell a million dollars of this? I'm like, yeah, maybe, but if I do, I'm going to put you out of business in about six months. You don't have this together. You don't have this together.

Speaker 3: 23:48

You really need to go speak to this person, this person and that person come back and see me in a year. And you know, at the time, you know there was a lot of tech refugees coming to bend and you were seeing a lot of the tech incubators, accelerators and funds and all of that, and started looking at that model and going what would happen if we applied that to outdoor products. And you know, as Will kind of said, I guess it was my frustration that you know, a lot of the focus at that time was on tech investment two years and out. And I was like Ben's an outdoor town, we need to help outdoor here first. And so I started going around and talking to a lot of those people two of them right here and saying, hey, I kind of got this idea, what do you think about this? And you know, like I said, I was kind of known for some crazy ideas, but you know this was one of the first ones that they all went. Yeah, that's a great idea. Matter of fact, how can I be part of it? Um, you know, and I'd known Justin and Will and several of the other founders in the community and respected what they had done and you know, reached out to them and yeah, as Will said, I think I cornered him at an Edco thing and sisters one time.

Speaker 3: 25:22

And then we had the idea of let's see if there's a need here, and we put a bunch of people together to come pitch us and give us some feedback. And we had I don't know 20, some people or whatever, that wanted to come talk to us. And at the end of it, you know, we were still trying to figure out are we a nonprofit, are we a for-profit, what's the curriculum? And we were all hung up on that and you know it was actually Rob who kind of prodded us and he's like, you know, I don't really care about all that, I want to sit down and pick your guys' brains at the picnic table once a week. And so we agreed to kind of start on a beta and see how it went.

Speaker 5: 26:02

And 10 years later, we're still on a beta, Asking herself how is it going? What's the curriculum, Justin?

Speaker 2: 26:16

what do you remember about Gary coming to you with this idea?

Speaker 5: 26:21

What do I remember about Gary coming to me? Well, like what you know and like, just tell people a little bit and I'll introduce you guys in the intro. But you know, you each as I, as we talked about before we started recording you each in your own right, we could sit down and do an entire episode on each of you and your background. I mean, will your time with rough wear, gary you're? I mean you kind of highlighted some of your outdoor experience, but I mean it's, it's vast dude, you've been working in outdoors since the late 80s-ish you know, yeah, mid to late 80s.

Speaker 5: 26:48

And I guess Justin, you I know the least man, so like tell me about yourself and like how Gary came to kind of approach you. And you know you each bring a superpower to this, I'm sure, and so what's yours? Oh gosh, that's a multilayered question there, I'm giving you some time to talk.

Speaker 2: 27:08

Yeah, I love it. You know, Gary and I met through an outdoor industry startup that I had, that I co-founded gosh, when I first came to Bend. What was that? It's called Play Outdoors.

Speaker 5: 27:21

Okay.

Speaker 2: 27:23

And it was my ex-wife and I started this company and it's outdoor gear and apparel for kids, right. Okay, as any entrepreneur and startup person, you know you dive into these things. And fulfillment, I mean. I think actually we bought shelving from Ruffwear at one point for our warehouse, because they had warehouses right next to us in the same facility, which that was pretty funny, anyways. So Gary had helped me out with that project.

Speaker 2: 28:05

Mainly, we were trying to do some just more sales specific things, and so we hit it off pretty well, and when that kind of all unraveled and this is, I guess, part of the beauty about entrepreneurship and kind of what we bring to the table is it's not all about success, right, so you also have the failures, right, and there's and I remember, um, there is a I'm totally going on different sides here but there's a there's a private equity guy that I was talking to and had helped invest in some of his funds with some of my other clients and and his big thing that he always looked for was the failures.

Speaker 2: 28:43

He's like I want to work with entrepreneurs that fail, you know cause you have to learn a lot about yourself as you fail, yeah, man, how you have to navigate those things, whether it be laying off employees or just you know the financing, or just the realization that you know the dream that you're on is is no longer in that iteration. So that was, that was a super, you know important nugget that came out, but um it definitely measures your level of grit.

Speaker 2: 29:09

Yeah, yeah, definitely the character. You know it's, it's that character piece, you know that, um. And then if you go back to it, you're like, oh gosh, are you that crazy? Um, but but yeah, so, Gary, I remember Gary calling me up with this, with this idea and, um, you know, and Gary kind of laughs about how he's the crazy one. But, uh, you know, it's like we all I mean I think everyone, the three of us here have enough crazy or enough vision or whatever, whatever you want to call it to to kind of go, go down, go down the plank or, you know, go off the plank.

Speaker 2: 29:38

And so for me it was a no brainer. I was like, yeah, how's it working? What do we do? How do we start? Who do we get a part of it? And, and a part of the big drive for that was, you know, when I had that company um, you know, there's a ton of consultants that come out and try to sell you the next thing that you need and tell you why this is how you should do it. And and, honestly, I didn't know. We were young, we didn't know, and so we had to lean on some of these consultants and then realizing later that we spent a lot of money on things we didn't need, right, but we didn't have that mentorship, we didn't have kind of that um, expertise and how could we, right, and so so that was a big draw for me to try to contribute to to these entrepreneurs Like, look, you don't need that person, or that they're just coming for the dollars. Like you don't, you don't need that.

Speaker 1: 30:58

You know there was, if I remember correctly, we were having a beer somewhere off of Century and there was more people in the room and we were part of the three or four that didn't step back. When Kerry said what do you think of this idea? Rick Friedland was there and a whole bunch of people like jumped out early, that's true. All right, I guess we're in this together.

Speaker 3: 31:20

The crazy ones. 10 years later, still crazy.

Speaker 5: 31:25

You guys talk a little bit about kind of the volatility of the outdoor industry and compared to like tech or consumer packaged goods and kind of helping it seems like, and from going to the boot camps for the last two years just as a as a participant in the, in the audience, and to learn it seems like a lot of what you talk about is kind of insulating yourselves from that volatility that's unique to the outdoor industry. Is that a fair statement?

Speaker 1: 31:57

Yvonne Chouinard has this quote that says it's not an adventure until something goes wrong, and I think it articulates so perfectly you know, kind of an outdoor industry business cycle as well, and we're probably all here together because of our passion for being in the outdoors.

Speaker 3: 32:15

For sure.

Speaker 1: 32:16

And how translatable those lessons you learn when stuff goes wrong, of the unexpected that is, the business cycle or just life. Let me share a story of how I got the job at Ruffwear. I think you might have heard this already, adam, but I think it articulates pretty well kind of this concept. So I moved to Bend via Colorado. At a short stop in McCall, idaho, my wife got pregnant and I kind of had this provider instinct kick in. I needed to raise a family and I wasn't going to be able to do that in McCall swinging, you know, hammers, because I'm shitty at construction.

Speaker 1: 33:12

So we packed up, left McCall, moved to Bend and a friend of a friend introduced me to Patrick at a roll session at Juniper Swim and Fitness. My pregnant wife was there. She pulled a spray skirt up over her pregnant belly and I was introduced to Patrick and he invited me to go kayaking on Courtsville Creek with him that weekend and I needed a job belly. And I was introduced to Patrick and he invited me to go kayaking on Courtsville Creek with him that weekend and I needed a job desperately. He didn't know this and so I was asking him a lot of questions about his business and a few days later he calls me in for an interview. He was interviewing for I think it was a general manager at that time and gave me a job. You know, two days later and I was super pumped. I'm like all right, I can feed a family, this is working.

Speaker 1: 33:58

And a few years later, I'm sitting there and Bend was pretty small back in early 2000s and but it was growing quickly and you had all of these people moving to Bend that wanted to contribute some of their business experience. And I would get resume after resume of people wanting to work at Ruffwear and some of these people had 10, 15, 20 years of business leadership and management experience. And so finally I asked Patrick, why did you give me the job at Ruffwear? And he said well, that day I invited you kayaking and when I showed up you were ready on time. You helped load the boats when we were running the river. You would eddy out and made sure everyone in the group made it down that rapid safely, one rapid you didn't feel comfortable with.

Speaker 1: 34:37

You decided to scout. You saw a piece of wood in there, a log that surely would have hung us up on. And he's like I realized that those skills that you exhibited in an outdoor setting were going to be what we would need to navigate kind of the business challenges. And so you know I share that story as, like you know, you can apply these things that you know you're faced with in a wilderness setting to a business setting. You just have to be flexible, open-minded, calm, and it's about, you know working as a team, because sometimes the outdoor industry can be considered a solo you know pursuit. But all of the outdoor pursuits I've did, whether it be rock climbing or kayaking, you know you depend on other people in a way that you just normally can't or don't have to.

Speaker 5: 35:22

So, yeah, and that answer your question for sure, man yeah, I mean that's a good example of um proper preparation prevents poor performance.

Speaker 5: 35:30

You know like that's a good positive out like example of proper preparation prevents poor performance, you know, like that's a good positive out like example of being prepared out in the world can translate directly to business. And then I can only imagine too, like just you know, when shit goes sideways, having kind of the emotional frequency to kind of deal with it. You know is obviously important outside, but then also you know professionally, whether it's business or health care or whatever. So yeah, I mean those are. It's fun to kind of translate your skill sets into different aspects of your life. There's a lot more overlap than I think people think about sometimes, you know.

Speaker 3: 36:10

Yeah, well, I was just going to say I think you know, as Justin touched on, you know there's a lot of consultants and business professionals that in this community you know that are there to work with or help these companies. But you know, the outdoor industry is a little different. It's a different model, right? You know the outdoor industry is a little different. It's a different model, right? You know, rather than food and beverage or CPG or something, you really have to be authentic and you have to tell your story and our customer base sees through. You know so quickly if you're not authentic and you know, but you still not authentic. And you know, but you still have to run a business too. So I think there's a little different model to making an outdoor products company work and you gotta be passionate, you gotta be authentic.

Speaker 5: 37:07

And yeah, are you talking more like kind of branding positioning, like being really solid on those things right?

Speaker 1: 37:15

yeah, you gotta know who you are design. I mean, if you don't know how the product needs to function in an outdoor environment and it doesn't function. You're done.

Speaker 2: 37:23

You could be, yeah and even to like the packaging that, like you know, it's all styrofoam package and sent with all this plastic shrink, wrap and, and you're like, oh man, missing the mark, right. So there's some of those things, too, that fall into it.

Speaker 5: 37:37

Yeah, I've been thinking a lot about just that concept of positioning and reading about it, it was more I was. Positioning is not what I thought it was initially. You know, I think a positioning more probably or did think about it more like branding, like brand positioning, but realizing that those two things are very different. You know, like knowing your place in the market, like where your product is designed to go, and then using that to kind of direct your branding and your marketing is what I'm learning. I'm learning, so I can see how that would be super valuable, especially in outdoor, where you know you're trying to connect with your customer in a in a unique way. That part of that is going to be some degree of subjectivity.

Speaker 5: 38:21

You know, whether it's the style or the story behind the brand or the owner of the brand or the founder, I mean there's more competition when it you know owner of the brand or the founder. I mean there's more competition when it you know in those spaces sometimes lots of people sell similar, similar types of products, you know. So how do you differentiate yourself? Man? That's a that's a big task. I can see, like you know, I can see the value in working with people who have done that before you know.

Speaker 1: 38:50

Well, at the end of the day I mean, you know, a purchase is an emotional decision. It's not a logical one. And so that's how we start our program is we really help these founders understand their why? And sometimes it's completely different than why they thought they started the company or what it needs to be, and that, you know, that's kind of the fun aspects of it for me is helping, just help them dig a few layers deeper and then that connections, those connections with the customers, really start to open up and strengthen.

Speaker 2: 39:21

Yeah well, I mean, when you're an entrepreneur, like you, are so in it, right, you, like you know you eat, sleep, drink, like everything is about your company and your product, right, so you're so biased, right, you don't know that it's not the best thing since sliced bread, right, you're like it is. It's like it's amazing, right, but you don't know why. Right, you know it is, but you don't know why, right. And so you have all this data that's in front of you, right, but you can't look at it from a logical place, right. So, having a group, you know, whether it be bow or mentors, advisors or whoever that sits down, and because your customers are going to tell you, like they will, right, there's all these metrics that you can, if you want to like, get scientific about it, they will tell you, because ultimately, they're going to buy it or not. And they're going to buy it for certain reasons, right. But unless you know what those reasons are, your positioning might totally be wrong, because you think it's this, but your customers are telling you that, but you don't have your head out of the business to even know what that is.

Speaker 2: 40:20

And then we see that a lot, where people go on this path. This business goes on this path and it works enough, but it's working because they have some things right or it is a great idea or a great product, but they don't have it nailed by what their customers are telling them, and so that, I think, has been really fun for me and probably for us, when you see that aha moment, to decouple that and be like, no, it's not about you, it's not your story. It might be your brand, your company, your vision, but it's ultimately you're providing this experience or this memory, this product to these people and this is what they take out of it. This is what they need and that is why you are succeeding. You're indirect to all that Right and seeing that like decoupling happen is pretty powerful because because then it takes some of that emotion out for the, for the entrepreneurs, which is really hard when you're like it's your baby, it's your it's your company.

Speaker 3: 41:14

Yeah, and I think you know what Justin's hitting on and I I heard in, you know Rob, rob's piece there.

Speaker 1: 41:22

There he is.

Speaker 3: 41:23

Yeah, there he is On cue. Speak of Rob, thank you.

Speaker 5: 41:27

Um, yeah, Sorry dudes. No, that was awesome. How did you have that?

Speaker 2: 41:32

magic.

Speaker 4: 41:33

I say Rob, and he just appears like the crazy magic circle right there.

Speaker 3: 41:38

But you know, rob touched on um, you know the loneliness of being an entrepreneur and, um, it's really a scary place that you're in this vacuum. You don't know what you don't know and you don't know who to go ask. And a lot of people have ulterior motives to working with you and really, you know, our whole thing was to break that lonely vacuum of being an entrepreneur and try to help people not make the same mistakes we've made or seen people make and you know, give them people that had been there, done that, built it from the ground up, just didn't sit in a you know big office at a corporate company and we've all been there, you know, so we can feel their pain and fear and help them break that vacuum, because they're not the only ones that have been there.

Speaker 1: 42:35

I mean, you know, the most successful people that work through our cohort program are active participants. They're not just sitting there waiting for the download, they're people like Rob that come to each cohort with 30 different questions and use you know kind of the brain trust in the room as a sounding board and then make their own decision after hearing that, because I mean, ultimately we let them know they have permission to accept or reject any feedback that we give them. And it needs to be that way. It has to, I mean, it's their business.

Speaker 2: 43:10

And they're going to get. I mean it would be great for have you in one of our sessions, right? Because the beauty about, or one of the magic sauces if we have it, is the fact that you know we don't all see it the same way.

Speaker 5: 43:23

I mean, I think that's important, it's huge.

Speaker 2: 43:25

I'd be like Gary, I know I, I think you're full of shit, but I don't, I don't agree with that at all. And and, and these companies, these founders, be like Whoa, like I can't believe that, that you just said that and like in such a like, a passionate way, and then we'll say why. And of course, you know, we, you know part of what works is cause we, we all have that respect for each other and that you know, it's not coming from a.

Speaker 2: 43:46

You know you don't have the skill set, Gary, to answer that, but I have a different background than you and vice versa, and it's really up to the entrepreneur to take all that, because they have to have that conviction with their decision, like Will said, and that's all we want is for them to know. Okay, there's 10 different paths, but you got to pick one and whatever you pick, you need to believe that that's the right path for now, for all the stuff that you can know right now and hit it hard, yeah and I agree.

Speaker 3: 44:16

I mean that's a big part of. I think the magic is, when you get all these people in the room, that they all have different backgrounds and perspectives and we're coming at it from different angles, so you get a more diverse perspective.

Speaker 1: 44:32

You get a more diverse perspective. Well, and most of us know to the course that they were going on if it was going to run into a brick wall in front of them, so I think it's. It's just. That's the experience that comes with time in a seat or doing something.

Speaker 5: 45:06

I love it that a piece of audio was actually um, another little soundbite from Rob. I wasn't planning on playing it, but he has a couple of questions because I was asking him stuff that he'd be interested in learning about.

Speaker 6: 45:21

I think you know some areas to explore would be how they all interact. You know they're very different personalities and experiences and focus areas and they complement each other incredibly well. But hearing firsthand from them how they think about when one of them takes a heavier role and when one of them backs off, I think would be an interesting topic. There's also this question of how they decide who a good fit is, and my quick lead to that answer is there's like it's not written, it's not a hard rule of like. This is what we're looking for. It's very squishy and, yeah, understanding from them who they want to work with I think would be fun, and then ultimately probing at them around what they're looking to get out of it.

Speaker 1: 46:14

Well, maybe to go back to the first point, because, you know we don't agree and I think always and when we don't, the hope is, and we're still learning, we still get triggered through each other and our egos still pop up. What?

Speaker 5: 46:30

triggers you, teaches you Will Exactly.

Speaker 1: 46:34

The mirror is shining all around the mirror is shining all around, but the hope is to try to model that in a way that is more conscious. For you know and you know, gary, and I have had a few, and I think you know we'll use those terms I'm feeling triggered. This is what I'm hearing. These are the stories I'm telling myself. I don't feel good about it. Gary, what's going on with you here, buddy? Why are you saying that about my idea? Because I thought it was really good.

Speaker 5: 47:07

That's really well done, man. I'm going to take some notes on that approach. Yeah, I think we've learned a lot about each other, and you know that's one of the things I love about it is I keep learning and growing in every session as well. I'm sure that was. The question was how how you guys um, start to identify with some of the brands that apply to participate, cause it is kind of you know, probably. I mean, what's that process look like? Yeah, man, that's a tough one.

Speaker 2: 48:04

I mean, we've what's that process look like yeah, man, that's a tough one. I mean we've, I mean we, we at one point we've have, like um, zoom interviews with potential brand companies that we know we don't. We don't know, yeah, right, we don't know these entrepreneurs, right, and, and you can tell right off the bat, you know I will, I may be speaking for myself is like, you got this hunch of like okay, how open is this person, right? So I mean, so you have this paper application that says, oh, you're making this really cool widget that you're selling a million of. Wow, that's pretty cool and they're growing about this. I'm really excited for this, and they're doing all this, this cool, this, this stuff.

Speaker 2: 48:40

And then you get them on the, on the zoom or phone call or in person, and you quickly realize they're not open, they're not willing to, um, to be intimate, to actually engage in a way that we want, right? So, again, we're not looking at this from a this, okay, how are we going to make as much money as possible from these little companies, right? So if we don't see that, you know, call it secret sauce. If you want that connection which is really just, you know being authentic and open and willing to, like you know, peel back the onion a little bit. Um, we're not interested. And, and, and I would say collectively for all the mentors that we have involved, that's that's pretty much the first like test is you know, could we work with this person? Could they actually meet us where we're going to go?

Speaker 1: 49:31

Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day we're we're placing a bet on a person, um, and the bet is our time and energy and the reward we get through learning and growing through them.

Speaker 1: 49:38

And so you know, the mind wants to make it formulaic, we want to devise it like all right, if you know a plus b equals c and one plus one equals two, then this is the company that we're going to let into the program. But it's more like baking a cake. You've got to have a variety of different ingredients and you can't have any conflicts of interest between the companies that are applying and you want them to be roughly around the same stage so that you can speak at the same level as far as information they might need to know. Stage, so that you can speak at the same level as far as information they might need to know. And so each time we kind of go into a cohort and we're looking at the applicants we have to, it's almost like we're at a startup again and we're kind of feeling through what the best scenario would be and how to structure that. So it's engaging in that way and that it's just not a copy paste, it's a creative process.

Speaker 5: 50:29

Yeah, that's a really good point, man. I didn't think about structuring it so that you're not only efficient, but that you were creating a community of different brands that can work together.

Speaker 2: 50:41

Yeah.

Speaker 5: 50:43

And learn from each other, not compete against each other, and that's part of their secret sauce.

Speaker 1: 50:48

They learn more through each other than they do from us. At the end of the day, yeah.

Speaker 3: 50:54

You know I'd say yeah, the product's probably the first thing you look at, right?

Speaker 3: 50:58

And you know, does this product have potential? Does it have legs? But you quickly go right past that too. As Will said, it's a lot about the entrepreneur you know is is this somebody that's coachable, workable, passionate? You know? Do they have what it takes, the tenacity to see this through? Is this somebody we want to work with? And then you know, it's also the yeah, the fit of the cohort. Will they fit in with the other companies we're looking at?

Speaker 3: 51:32

And you know, I look back in my career and I've seen so many different companies built from different angles. You know, sometimes it's people, the right people come together and they can build a company, but maybe they don't have the product or they don't know how to market. Or you know the other part maybe they've build a company but maybe they don't have the product or they don't know how to market. Or you know the other part maybe they've got a great product but they don't have the right team behind it. And you know, at the end of the day, it's really about the people and having all four legs of the stool. You know you need to have some business experience, all four legs of the stool. You know you need to have some business experience. You need to have passion and tenacity and the right product, and I've seen a lot of companies come in with one or two legs of the stool that don't survive, and it's really about putting it all together.

Speaker 5: 52:22

Yeah, that makes a ton of sense. I also it makes me start thinking about the evolution that that person's going to go through from founder to kind of CEO and like developing those. You know that foundation early on only has to be beneficial, because I can't I mean what's? Are there any brands that kind of stick out to you guys that you've worked with over the years that you've been overly impressed with, not only kind of during your time with them, but seeing how they continued to grow?

Speaker 2: 52:56

I mean I can speak for Robert Axel Project is one that comes out for sure.

Speaker 2: 53:00

I mean, those guys they started, I mean they were part of our cohort from the very, very beginning of their company, right. I mean they were a part of our cohort from the very, very beginning of their company, right. And then watching them grow into their managerial roles as they grew and they, you know, had all the same stumbling blocks that we had gone through, you know, scaling our own companies, and it was cool to watch because they were the last people if you would have asked them. They're the last people that wanted to run a company yeah, like they didn't want to run a company. And now Katie's like, yeah, well, run a company and they do it very well, right, but they've had to navigate those pieces every step of the way. And then to the example that Will was bringing up of like you only get what you put into the program. I mean this is a great example of, uh, of a company that, okay, they graduated our program. I can't even remember what cohort they were, you know from the early days. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 53:53

So back in the early days, right, maybe the number two, right, so this we're talking eight years ago or nine years ago and, um, and to this day, we still meet with them, you know, as advisors, and they come to us either individually or collectively. Um, because they value that connection and we value that connection. As well as that, we have that symbiotic relationship, and so they still learn from that, we still learn from watching them go through these, these things, and they help, you know, they helped us with like, okay, here's how to refine, like your, your digital marketing partner.

Speaker 2: 54:24

You know this part's not working, you know, even though this came from your contact or we use this, but maybe pivot this way and so. So BOW as an organization, which is interesting, we haven't really talked about this, but BOW as an organization is learning quite a bit, also from the alum that comes through, so it's a really cool circle, yeah.

Speaker 1: 54:44

They become our biggest sponsors too. Yeah, yeah, they become our biggest sponsors too. Yeah, it's incredible.

Speaker 3: 54:47

Yeah, you know, adam, I think something you hit on there too was the evolution of the entrepreneur. Yeah, you know, in the beginning, lots of times it's one, two people, yeah, and you're wearing all the hats, right. And then one of the tricks is, as you grow, which hats do you take off and put on somebody else's hats? Which one, you know, if you're the best salesperson you don't want to make them go do accounting, right, and and where your skill sets lie and where you need help, and which hats you take off and pass on first. And you know, I've obviously always been a believer of, you know, filling the room with the smartest people I can. You know, as the co-founders and mentors are a great example of, and you know being not being afraid to. You know, take those hats off and put them on somebody else's head, and that's a big step of trust Totally.

Speaker 1: 55:44

Yeah, I think we help them identify where their strengths are and what they want to do in the organization, but we also have to be really intentional with what type of feedback we're getting, based on the stage of their growth. So, um, you know, you only have so much time and energy, and so we really help them focus, like what is going to move the needle for you today or over the next year, rather than thinking five years in advance. Yeah, um, because it's iterative and the business cycle is iterative and the company is and they are, and so you have to just take it one step at a time yeah, that book, the e-th, comes to mind, like the different roles.

Speaker 5: 56:31

You know the different roles Manager, entrepreneur, technician. Knowing what you are, knowing what you aren't, knowing kind of where to, yeah, replace yourself as soon as possible. It's cool stuff. Yeah, entrepreneurship's fun, it's super fun. What else, fellas? About a month from now, you have your boot camp and then your breakout. Tell people about those things, because this will come out before then.

Speaker 1: 57:01

Yeah, maybe also dive into a little bit about how the program is structured. Yeah, maybe not curriculum, but just kind of a general. I mean, Gary, you're probably the program is structured. Yeah, Maybe not curriculum, but just kind of a general. I mean, Gary, you're probably the best suited.

Speaker 3: 57:12

Yeah, I mean the program it. You know, one of the things that I think separates us from a lot of other accelerators out there is we go deep and um, you know it's about a four month program and we meet weekly for three hours on. You know different curriculum points and issues the companies are having. We do a lot of you know off hours, you know sidebar meetings with them and put a lot of time into it and go pretty deep and then we stay with them for quite some time After that. As Justin said, we're still meeting with companies that were in the program eight, nine years ago. And, yeah, a few years ago we started our breakout event and you know, at the time BVC was, you know, a bit tech focused and there had never been really outdoor product companies.

Speaker 2: 58:13

I think Justin pitched them, gary, tell us how you really feel.

Speaker 3: 58:17

Will says it the best. You know, we were disappointed not to see a representation of what Bend is involved in that event. And one year we actually put three companies on the stage in the finals from bow companies the first year and none of them got anything. You know, one of them was even, I think, crowd favorite or something like that. So, yeah, I was a bit frustrated, um, and we were like, well, hell with it, we're going to do our own event. And, um, I believe that, um, we picked a date and we had 30 days, 45 days to that date, and we went out and raised 10 grand and we just wanted let's give this away to some company yeah man.

Speaker 3: 59:12

So we did our first event up at the uh, old stone church and we had um beaver theodosakis, the founder of prana okay, who I'd worked with in the past, and we had beaver come up and kind of keynote it and we had our companies come up and pitch it, and, you know, free beer. And we had beaver come up and kind of keynote it and we had our companies come up and pitch it, and, you know, free beer. And we filled the stone old stone church with like two, three hundred people and we're like, wow, you know there's something here. So, uh, yeah, the next year we decided to take it to the tower theater where bvc was, and um did it the night before their event. So you know, we'd leave it smelling like stale beer for them when they came in.

Speaker 2: 59:53

All by coincidence.

Speaker 3: 59:54

It was not planned that way at all, and you know, I think, that next year we just about filled the Tower Theater.

Speaker 2: 1:00:02

That's great.

Speaker 3: 1:00:05

And so then we decided that you know, was that snow plank year. Good question.

Speaker 2: 1:00:10

Yeah, I think it Was that snow plank year. Good question yeah, I think it could have been. I think it was Because I have some like iconic photos in my or images in my mind of James up there.

Speaker 1: 1:00:18

Yeah, I think Rob emceed that year, so yeah, I think that was.

Speaker 2: 1:00:22

That's cool, yeah, and one thing I want to mention.

Speaker 2: 1:00:26

That too is like one of the things that we, that we wanted to do, is, like you know, bbc is in a lot of investment conferences out there, I mean, and they do a great purpose, right.

Speaker 2: 1:00:35

They're there to find companies to invest in, right, and that's why people are there, and but there's a very much of a song and dance as to what you're supposed to do, how you're supposed to present and what they're going to ask, and you're catering to these same people for the most part. I'm generalizing a little bit here, but we were really obviously you can tell we're counterculture a little bit. We're like let's just give the money away, right, like how often do you see that happen? Right, and I would love, and I still would love to see this is just raise more money and give away 50 grand, like I mean, how awesome would that be, where there are no strings attached. We don't want equity, we just want to support this cool idea, this. You know, whether you're from Bend or not, you know we have companies that come from all over the country to do this stuff. Really, really cool and very unique kind of proposition that we have.

Speaker 3: 1:01:24

And really the intent was just to provide a platform that these outdoor companies could get more recognition. And, yeah, we didn't want to quite go down the same route. So, as Justin said, we've always been kind of it's a free grant and then, off the success from the first few years of that event, we decided to add the boot camp because there was always, you know, questions and people wanted to know, and so, you know, we have a bunch of industry experts come in and talk about whether it be funding and the different types of funding and the pitfalls and marketing, digital marketing, sales, founder stories, and that's become quite popular.

Speaker 5: 1:02:07

Yeah, I've gone the last two years it's. It's definitely worth the time and money. You know it's I really like it because it's you can meet really interesting people there I've met you know, and still I've been in contact with people I met two years ago, you know. So, yeah, it's I. Of all the different options that are presented in this town that are similar to that, which aren't many, but it's by far, in my opinion, the most enjoyable by far, partly to I'm biased because I like outdoor stuff, but yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:02:39

Right on.

Speaker 5: 1:02:39

Well, thank you, that's our goal, and I definitely more like identify more as it would like the counterculture approach. It's much more relatable, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:02:52

Yeah, I mean maybe just to touch on that.

Speaker 1: 1:02:55

You know, kind of, at the end of the day, if you look back at like why we do this, is we feel really rewarded by helping these founders, you know, create a unique path through the wilderness of outdoor entrepreneurship?

Speaker 1: 1:03:10

But it's the how that Gary touched on, how we do that, I think is part of our secret sauce and that is we get to know these people because we're with them so much that there is a level of trust that's built up. I mean, at the beginning of the program we're talking about people's biggest fears and their greatest desires and I mean we've had people cry during programs and they I mean they really bear their heart and their soul to us and as a result, you know it just accelerates that trust building process and you know, by the end of it it's just super rewarding to see how tight you can become with, you know, this group of 16 people and it's got this magnetic pull to it that keeps us all coming back. Every year we're like, are we going to do another one? And we go through the summer and then we're like, oh man, we just missed that feeling. It energizes you, it's pretty powerful, it's super rad man.

Speaker 2: 1:04:12

Yeah, well, you know what's funny about that piece too is because you know, we've been around for a little bit now, right, and people have talked about oh pow, and you know how do we, how do you guys do what you do?

Speaker 2: 1:04:21

Or you know it's so funny Cause they we've we've had a couple of iterations of this where people are like really gung ho about setting up a, you know like a, a copycat, which is, which is great. We're not like, oh, you can't do it. Like you know these three hours every every week and these in-person sessions and these out of out of um, you know the cohort meeting sessions that you have one-on-one, and all the time you put into you know managing this, and they're like, uh, yeah, I can't, I can't do that, right, and then, but that's the secret sauce is like, unless you put the time or you have those people that have that desire to spend that time, you're not going to get that intimacy that you really need to kind of dive in there. And, and you know these people are all like, well, you don't get paid, like how could you devote that much time to it?

Speaker 2: 1:05:18

And so I think it's just saying that cause this whole thing started with the formation of bow Right and one of the things why I think it formed was that you know we were all happened to be in that. You know I don't know that situation individually and then collectively, you know Gary had this concept where you know we made that time happen. But I don't think if it was one or two of us you know separate, it wouldn't have happened.

Speaker 1: 1:05:44

Yeah, it's probably such a traumatic experience for us individually going through it alone. We like didn't want anyone else to feel that way.

Speaker 2: 1:05:53

We've got you, we're here for you. Yeah, it's interesting If you think about like, how did that happen?

Speaker 1: 1:05:58

Right.

Speaker 2: 1:05:58

How did we, you know, how did that actually keep going? Right? Cause, cause, ultimately, that's what stops a lot of these things from becoming. You know, like you know, I was just joking earlier to say, oh, our website looks pretty good. You know, cause, like I remember, when we created it, created one back in the day where we're like, well, if they find us, it's cause they have to, like, search for us and it's like you know, we didn't have much out there, and you know, anyways, just kind of besides the point, yeah, it's definitely a give back that feeds our soul.

Speaker 3: 1:06:30

Yeah, and it started as an altruistic mission and, you know, hopefully it's always going to be that altruistic beta. Meet them where they're at.

Speaker 5: 1:06:39

Well, it reflects, you know nothing reflects your values, like where you spend your time, you know. So like three hours a week, you know that's. It reflects the value that you guys get out of this, you know, and that you believe in it, and it's, it's rad, well it's altruistic, but I mean, at the end of the day we're giving back, but we're doing it because we get more in return.

Speaker 3: 1:07:03

It feeds our soul, it keeps us going for sure.

Speaker 5: 1:07:08

Yeah, I very much appreciated what you guys have done, like each of you and people from kind of that network.

Speaker 5: 1:07:13

I mean, I've just kind of dipped my toe in it the last couple years but I've learned a ton and and I've had, you know, I had emily hoy in here- and it was a ton of fun and, like I've, you know, there's been other, like Colin Clark, who went through a couple years ago with his van company, and you know, like I've, what you guys, what people have taught working in that network, there's a ripple effect because I've learned from them and that's super rad. So you guys should be proud of yourselves, man.

Speaker 1: 1:07:43

Thanks. Yeah, this has been super fun. Yeah, appreciate you. Yeah, this has been super fun. Yeah, I appreciate you.

Speaker 5: 1:07:48

Yeah, I mean, just like you know it's the same. It's the same like I don't get paid for this, but it's this kind of I get a lot out of it, you know a ton out of it.

Speaker 5: 1:07:58

I've learned so much and you know like you build this network, in this community of these people. And you know, I would say, gary, one of your superpowers in terms of, from my perspective, is you're a connector. You know like you're, you have, you know you're leveraging your relationships that you've built in a really authentic way over the years in a really interesting, unique space that reflects with you and like there's nothing better than introducing people who can benefit from each other man. And that's essentially what this is built on.

Speaker 3: 1:08:31

That's what keeps us going.

Speaker 1: 1:08:33

Well, even if not a single soundbite from our discussion makes it on to the recording. Rob crushed it. Thanks.

Speaker 2: 1:08:41

Adam, that was fun guys.

Speaker 4: 1:08:45

That was a wrap right there. That was a wrap right there.

Speaker 5: 1:09:10

Hey, thanks for listening to Ben Magazine's the Circling Podcast. Make sure to visit benmagazinecom and learn about all the outdoor adventures in our area, as well as upcoming featured community events, local artist profiles, our dining guide and more. Remember, enter promo code podcast at checkout for your $5 annual subscription. Our theme song was written by Carl Perkins and performed by Aaron Kohlbaker and Aaron Zerflu of the Aarons. We love mail, so please send us comments, questions or art to thecirclingpodcast at binmagazinecom.

Speaker 5: 1:09:48

Support the Circling Podcast by becoming a member on Patreon at patreoncom. Forward slash thecirclingpodcast and learn how your financial contribution will help support local nonprofits while also supporting local podcasting. Learn more about Bend Outdoor Works at bendoutdoorworkscom and make sure to mark Wednesday, october 16th on your calendar, as BOW will be hosting their boot camp sessions during the day and their breakout pitch event later that night at Open Space Studios. Don't miss it. It's a blast and you can learn a ton. Lastly, if you know someone who you think would enjoy today's episode, please share it with them today. Hey, thanks for your time. Central Oregon Get outside. We'll see you out there. And remember the health of our community relies on us.